R-D1s potential newbie

[saldun70]

Hello all. I am new to this site and new to rangefinders. I learnt darkroom photogrpahy with an old Fujica, which had what sounds like an RF style viewfinder, and have since moved to digital. Unfortunately nothing I've tried (Lumix, Digilux 2 and Nikon D80) has compared to the intuitive feeling of that camera. With this in mind I've decided to go along the RF route, and not being able to afford a Leica M8, have arrived at the R-D1s. That's not to say I think it a lesser camera (although on paper it clearly is), and there are features I really see myself getting on with, such as the winder and the dial ISO selection.

Anyway, this is just a general thread to see if you folks would be kind enough to share your thoughts with me on your R-D1s experiences/issues.

I must admit some things are concerning me. For example, one thread I read elsewhere suggested the camera wasn't particularly robust, and was in need of constant repair, which is obviously a worry when they are discontinued.

Other things would be the Japanese suppliers. Anyone used them? Are they reliable etc.

ANY ANY ANY ANY info on any topic, from framlines to focussing, processing to printing, would be gratefully received, while I continue to read the other threads on this site.

Many thanks 🙂

 

[djonesii]

I have been in a slightly diffirent boat, never shot film, and wanted to expand. To get my toe wet, I am building a RF kit based on Voigtlander film. For me it is some what of a cost issue. I found an R body for ~200, 21/F CV Color Skopar, won a Canon 50mm on flea-bay, New Epson scanner, some film, and I'm up and running for under $1,000 ..... If I decide I like the shooting, I can sell the body for what I paid, or keep it .... Lens's are interchangable, and then add the digital body later.

For me, film helps me focus on the methods, it slows me down. I use a mini lab, and the feed back on my work is fast, but not instant.


Well under the around 3K USD that it will cost for digital

Dave

 

[emraphoto]

"I must admit some things are concerning me. For example, one thread I read elsewhere suggested the camera wasn't particularly robust, and was in need of constant repair, which is obviously a worry when they are discontinued."

i held off buying an r-d1s for a long, long time as a result of the internet buzz concerning quality of build, overall "toughness" etc. i have owned one for a while now and have had ZERO problems. it has been in my bag daily for well over a year and again ZERO issues. i'm not saying there wasn't issues but i don't think they were a lemon of a camera by any stretch.
rangefinders need adjustment from time to time. that's part of the rangefinder experience... but buy one! you won"t regret it AND they produce great files!

 

[Didier]

The camera is not less robust than most consumer dslr's, but rangefinders are slightly more delicate than mirror houses, not to talk about fully electronic cameras with EVF and almost no mechanics, which, in this sense, are more reliable.

The R-D1 rangefinder can get disaligned with quite soft knocks, that's an issue. It can be realigned DIY (if you're skilled enough for it) otherwise specialists can do it. No spare parts needed.

Another problem was the poor quality control of the first series (R-D1), when many lemons came into the market. This improved with the R-D1s.

But I'm not shure if I'd buy it (in your situation, I already own one) except for a very good price (clearly below $1.5). The Ricoh GR with a 28mm finder offers quite much finder-feeling, or a Ricoh GX100, too, both for much less money than the Epson.

Didier

 

[victoriapio]

I too have found the Rd1s to be a very reliable camera. Didier is correct that the Ricoh GR is an interesting alternative UNLESS you want interchangeable lenses. If you want to build a system around some very good RF glass and then upgrade to the second generation digital rangefinder body, then the Rd1s is for you.

I find the Rd1s handles very well, forcuses very quickly and of course the sky is the limit when it comes to available glass for it. At some point I will probably jump to an M8 (or M9) for improved image quality. The rd1s does very well at high ISO and while the image quality is OK, you must use good glass and the whole frame to get the best you can out of the camera. Print sizes up to A3+ are very good.

Interestingly, although I have the top Canon full frame DSLR with every lens from 15mm to 600mm, I shoot everyday with the Rd1s. (I was a Leica user back in my film days and have taken to the rd1s for the advantages rangefinders have over SLRs.)

To see some images from the Rd1s, here's the link to my Rd1s gallery. Click on the slide show and sit back with a nice glass of Scotch and enjoy the images. BTW, each image identifies the lens it was taken with.

I will finish by adding that while the M8 may surpass the rd1s in image quality, this is an excellent digital rangefinder that will serve me - and perhaps you - until the next generation DRF is introduced.

Good luck and keep clicking,

O.C.

 

[JNewell]

First, if you haven't done so, read through the pages on Rich Cutler's site (see sticky at the top of this forum.

Actually, first thing - welcome!

As noted above, I don't think the R-D1 is particularly fragile, but it isn't a Leica M. Rangefinder alignment is the principal question, but if you are patient it's not hard to learn to do it yourself.

Price was an issue for me. I would not buy one of these, especially used, at US$2000-2200. I did buy an Epson refurb when I found one for sale at $1400.

The Epson and a D100 have been my introduction to digital photography. (I have been shooting a Leica M3 since 1972 and Nikon SLRs since 1973.) As a funny coincidence, they share the same sensor.

I am finding the R-D1 a very satisfying camera to use, physically. It handles well and is a pleasure to use. My only comment would be that I think it's quite sensitive to eye position, possibly because of its relatively high viewfinder magnification compared to most Leica Ms and also because I have a +1.5 diopter correction lens on mine.

I also find the files it generates very satisfying, both color and b&w. You don't need a 10+MP sensor to get great images.

Overall, I'd highly recommend it, if you understand its limits and don't spend too much.

If you

 

[saldun70]

Wow! Thank you all so much for your comments. Seems the rumours that rangefinder users are a generous and enthusiastic bunch are all true! Thanks again. Keep 'em coming! I'll be sure to post my progress as soon as I'm in a position to do so.

 

[--]

Pure joy

Pure joy

Hello Saldun - welcome to this great site.

Having a D200 which is close to the D80 I will try comparing it with that. Since I only took the jump a month ago (2 Oct actually) most of my considerations are fairly fresh in mind.

If I really were to "get" the picture and it involved objects with rapid movement I would definitely opt for the D200/D80. In all other situations where joy and/or artistic messing around to the best of my abilities is involved the R-D1s wins hands down. The camera itself feels robust enough but the D200 (and probably the D80 too) is better sealed against adverse weather - at least based on feedback from long time owners here.

Below you can see the official answer I got from Epson in the UK regarding repair. Since Epson in my experience has a fairly good reputation in general this is about as good a guarantee as one can get nowadays:

In reply to your email, Epson will offer out of warranty services for as long as there is a demand. We believe products usually have a shelf life of between 5 - 10 years. Customers who have printers that are 10 years old are still able to obtain out of warranty services even if this includes fixed price upgrades to the latest models

This was not my first rangefinder but the first time one tries focusing a rangefinder is not that easy. However it soon becomes second nature and I must admit I have several times noticed myself looking for vertical structures to focus on – when I was out and about without the camera! In very strong lighting the focusing is difficult though. I find it easier to use with glasses on than the D200. Oh, and one regains the appetite for using different apertures. I find myself using the D200 at auto ISO with VR lens on and just framing and shooting. Mind you that you will not miss the grid lines from the D200 since the lens boundaries are clearly marked and can be used to keep the camera level and as composition aids.

Exposure is fairly consistent – I use 2/3 stop extra and shoot raw. In comparison I always use jpegs on the Nikon and any other digital camera I own. Although vibration reduction is not available one can shoot with fairly long shutter times due to the lack of vibrating mirror. I have very shaky hands but can get fair shots at 1/30.

The supplied software is the first editing software I actually like using. It lends itself to experimenting with different output and have yet to break down (how about making a PC operating system Epson?). Apart from removing unwanted things from the picture and re-sizing I only use Photoshop (Elements) for unsharpening. For display I prefer the following settings after quite a bit fiddling around: amount=150, radius=2, threshold=3

I do not print so cannot say anything regarding that.

The picture quality is with my amateur eyes far superior to the D200 – even with changes made to the Nikon's fairly conservative standard output.

Being a cameraphile and having a dozen of them there is no other camera, apart from my Xpan (another rangefinder, coincidence?), that I actually enjoy using as much as the R-D1s. So much that I gave my Contax G1 (similar thing really, although film) to my brother the other day and I am not missing it or its very fine lens. If money were no problem I actually think I would prefer a second R-D1s to an M8 - but that is based on just a little use of an M8.

One strange side effect is that I have not laid eyes on another lens or gadget for the last month! I use the 35mm Voigtländer Pancake II lens and I am pretty sure it will take quite a while before I buy another lens for the R-D1s. This combo with feet-zoom added just feels very natural to me.

One thing you might consider is a grip – it is not so easy to carry along if you do not want to use a neck strap. Grips can be had for very little if you are prepared to do a little customisation – you can search for N-2TR and see how I got a cheap grip (and my you opening a tin of peas is normally the limit of my DIY skills (with a tin opener that is)). Oh, and you will adore being able to fold the screen away - no more finger and nose prints everywhere.

So far the only changes I would like to see is an expanded ISO range (to 100 and 3200) and a dedicated grip - the latter more important than the former. And cheaper original batteries although they last fairly well.

So if you can afford it – by all means jump in – not only is the water warm and clean – it will also cover the saliva you will constantly emit 😉

 

[Tsai]

Come on in, the water's fine.

long time DSLR shooter, i have the the D80 as well.

as quoted above, the GR-D is a very interesting option (i own as well) for quick snaps with pretty good lens.

But the style of the rangefinder is something that cannot be substituted. The split screen viewfinder at 1:1 viewing. The extremely smooooth focusing on some of the best lens (in comparison to some SLR lenses)

Just waiting for the mailman to bring my R d1s from japan.

 

[saldun70]

Thanks very much for your comprehensive comments, Xpanded. Like all the others, and the other threads on this great site, you have given me much food for thought. I'm very close to jumping in now, but just wish I could keep my D80 as a backup instead of having to sell it to get and R-D1s. Such is life, I guess...

 

[--]

I'm very close to jumping in now, but just wish I could keep my D80 as a backup instead of having to sell it to get and R-D1s. Such is life, I guess...

I understand your position very well. If one wants a new (from the shop) R-D1s it is close to being the final call 😱 On the other hand I agree with Didier (although he has given a remarkable low price😉) that the GRD (and GRDII just announced) gives a close match to the R-D1s with a few distinct advantages:

• Much cheaper,
• can be carried in the palm of your hand,
• perhaps even better external viewfinder (extra)
• much the same feeling
• you can do macro at no extra costs
• nearly as good handling
• for me easier to make "stealth" shooting in the street with the camera in the hand with arm down along the body - with the R-D1s I usually get great pictures of the sky or the tarmac...

The caveats are there as well:

• The RAW writing times (less so on the GRDII) are glacial (pre global warming)
• colour above 200 ISO is useless
• BW above 400 ISO is, eh, challenged (but very nice at 400)
• parallax error significant at close range
• useless screen

It is really sad, that it is so difficult to try it out before buying it - in my country it was impossible :bang:

Good luck in your decision making - may the Photo Angel :angel: help you 😉

PS: Just noticed that you are placed in the UK - why don't you drive down to www.robertwhite.co.uk and try it out. They are very friendly - I bought mine from there and had it 16 hours later!

 

[Johnmcd]

Thanks very much for your comprehensive comments, Xpanded. Like all the others, and the other threads on this great site, you have given me much food for thought. I'm very close to jumping in now, but just wish I could keep my D80 as a backup instead of having to sell it to get and R-D1s. Such is life, I guess...

Hi,

We can only share our own personal experiences but for what it is worth, I wish I had bought one years ago. But I needed to take a journey via my film R3A rangefinder. Loved to shoot it but didn't have the time to process and scan as much as I would have liked. This led me to the RD-1 and it hasn't disappointed. I use the RD-1 just like a film camera with the screen in the covered position. I only view the screen to change settings that can't be done any other way.

I have a Canon 20D setup which is fabulous for what it can do and I wouldn't shoot anything else for sport (for the price) and I will shoot a wedding later this year and I know it will do a great job when I need to focus quickly. But time and time again I reach for the RD-1 with a single lens - the 40mm 1.4 Nokton. This is real enjoyment just in handling and using a fine machine - that has little to do with image but with the process of picture taking. The wonderful, unique pictures are a bonus.

I also have a GRD and it is a great camera but to be totally honest you are still comparing a small sensor to a large one and in that respect the differences are clear. That's not to say that the GRD isn't a great street shooter in the right hands. But in image quality it comparing apples and oranges IMHO.

Am I worried about its future? Of course. But if it fails in the future and I can no longer get it fixed, I will just buy a M8 or whatever is around at the time. Yes it will cost but you only live once and strangely enough 'normal' people would see nothing wrong with losing at least that amount in devaluation when they buy a new car. But I no doubt preach to the converted here 🙂

In the meantime I don't waste time worrying about it, I just enjoy it 🙂

Cheers,

John

PS. I will also have the RD-1 around my neck while I shoot that wedding, just for that 'special' shot...

 

[saldun70]

Thanks very much, Jonhmcd. I am now convinced this is the way for me - just need to get hold of one now!

 

[Johnmcd]

Good luck 🙂 and like Expanded said, see if you can hold one at Robert White and the deal will be done!

John

 

[SteveM(PA)]

You can show little kids that it doesn't have a screen, so they won't jump around behind you to look at the screen...they will stay where they are, allowing you to keep shooting. The little scamps. 🙂