mani
Well-known
That old question again - I know it's been asked a million times - but after quite a (what shall I say?) polemical discussion on the Leica forum as to the merits of the R-D1s, my credit-card finger is now itching on the trigger - contrary to the advice I mostly got there, needless to say... 
So the question is: is it a good time to buy an Epson R-D1s? The last few new or ex-demo models are disappearing now. But the support is non-existent and the camera is a little 'sensitive' and temperamental...
I'm also loving film again, and an exhaustive search on the net for large files to compare left me occassionally shocked at the poor quality of some M8 captures when I made pixel-level examinations (yes I know I shouldn't, but....)
So tell me why you love your R-D1/s (or why you hate it), and maybe we can see who has gone the longest without a breakdown (of the camera, that is).
So the question is: is it a good time to buy an Epson R-D1s? The last few new or ex-demo models are disappearing now. But the support is non-existent and the camera is a little 'sensitive' and temperamental...
I'm also loving film again, and an exhaustive search on the net for large files to compare left me occassionally shocked at the poor quality of some M8 captures when I made pixel-level examinations (yes I know I shouldn't, but....)
So tell me why you love your R-D1/s (or why you hate it), and maybe we can see who has gone the longest without a breakdown (of the camera, that is).
wintoid
Back to film
The support isn't non-existent. The support is somewhat expensive, and will be around for another 5 years or so.
Basically the RD1S is 100% right for me, apart from the worries about RF alignment, and what happens when Epson stop supporting it.
Basically the RD1S is 100% right for me, apart from the worries about RF alignment, and what happens when Epson stop supporting it.
kevin m
Veteran
Who supports the camera here in the U.S., particularly? I can't find a clear answer to this question anywhere....
mani
Well-known
Well Wintoid - as I see you're from the neck of the English woods where I grew up, it's great to hear that Europe has some Epson interest, anyway.
But with your RF alignment worries (and they're my worries too) I'm not sure if you're voting for or against?
Anyways - bedtime for me after a long day today... we'll see how the votes stand tomorrow morning, shall we? And maybe some pictorial evidence to sway me either way, too!
Cheers!
But with your RF alignment worries (and they're my worries too) I'm not sure if you're voting for or against?
Anyways - bedtime for me after a long day today... we'll see how the votes stand tomorrow morning, shall we? And maybe some pictorial evidence to sway me either way, too!
Cheers!
wintoid
Back to film
Sorry I'm saying the camera is great, it's the worries that are the problem Definitely a vote FOR the camera.
I was under the impression that you could send an RD1 or RD1S to Epson and they would sort it out for a fixed (extortionate) fee whereever you are in the world. I had my RD1S alignment worked on by Robert White whilst under warranty and he did a fantastic job.
Definitely a vote FOR the camera.I was under the impression that you could send an RD1 or RD1S to Epson and they would sort it out for a fixed (extortionate) fee whereever you are in the world. I had my RD1S alignment worked on by Robert White whilst under warranty and he did a fantastic job.
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
kevin m said:Who supports the camera here in the U.S., particularly? I can't find a clear answer to this question anywhere....
Epson. There have also been posts here about independent repairers working on things like shutters. DAG and Sherry Krauter are not working on these at this time, however.
RF alignment is not that hard to DIY, following Rich's instructions.
It is a very fun and rewarding camera to use, and it produces very good images. If you don't have $5k to throw at an M8, it's your only DRF solution.
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LeicaM3
Well-known
mani said:So tell me why you love your R-D1/s (or why you hate it), and maybe we can see who has gone the longest without a breakdown (of the camera, that is).
The R-D1 is a true RF with a digital sensor, for me it follows the RF philosophy. The controls are brilliant and adhere to the KISS priniciple. Outstanding ergonomics.
I owned the M8 for 9 months and sold it, for my use of a camera the R-D1 is better. Have had no problems with it.
Other R-D1 users in my neck of the woods had it repaired by Epson, DAG and Essex in NJ - nobody had a prob getting it fixed.
If it would have a full frame sensor and 10-12 MP it would be perfect. But for my way of using a camera, it is the better of the two digital RF.
Mind you, my ideal would be a M2/M3/MP with a full frame sensor, that's all I wish for. The M8 isn't it.
Tuolumne
Veteran
Big thumbs UP for the R-D1. I have had mine over a year. Other than an initial rangefinder adjustment, I have had no problems and have taken well over 10,000 images with it. I use it daily with no problems whatsoever and do not baby it. I bought a backup just in case, but it has never had to come off the shelf. I think the problems are somewhat overblown. The rangefinder alignment issue especially. Cosina made the camera. Every Cosina camera I have ever bought, new or otherwise, had needed to have the rangefinder adjusted. Once my R-D1 RF was adjusted, I haven't had any problems with it since. I have all my work done at Essex camera in NJ. They had no qualms about working on it. I think all of the mechanics are pretty similar to the CV cameras out there. The ergonomics are brilliant. I love the image quality. It meets my needs. I have no hankering for an M8 since I've gotten this camera.
/T
/T
mani
Well-known
Great guys! Thanks for all taking the time to answer my question - while I slept - that's what I love about this forum!
I'm actually going to be buying from Robert White - so essentially I should just make sure that they adjust the RF before sending?
Otherwise, apart from the form-factor (I prefer the M8), I really can't see the great leap in quality that's often claimed by M8-owners, I'm afraid. As I said above, I've done a lot of looking at full-size images (whether that's wise or not) and compared to my basic lab-done scans of Portra160, the M8 images often end-up looking like P&S captures - especially when taken in low light.
I occasionally tried to find images with similar lighting conditions, and stitched together Portra vs M8 - I'll attach one below. Naturally the comparison isn't really fair - the M8 image covered twice the area - so really the Portra scan should be pixel-doubled. But on the other hand, this was just the most basic CD scan that the lab offers as part of their processing - so I guess alot more detail could be got from the Portra.
Furthermore, here in Sweden the M8 will put you back a hefty $7.5
So if I must add digital to my film cameras again and still be able to use my Leica lenses, the R-D1s seems to be it!
I'm actually going to be buying from Robert White - so essentially I should just make sure that they adjust the RF before sending?
Otherwise, apart from the form-factor (I prefer the M8), I really can't see the great leap in quality that's often claimed by M8-owners, I'm afraid. As I said above, I've done a lot of looking at full-size images (whether that's wise or not) and compared to my basic lab-done scans of Portra160, the M8 images often end-up looking like P&S captures - especially when taken in low light.
I occasionally tried to find images with similar lighting conditions, and stitched together Portra vs M8 - I'll attach one below. Naturally the comparison isn't really fair - the M8 image covered twice the area - so really the Portra scan should be pixel-doubled. But on the other hand, this was just the most basic CD scan that the lab offers as part of their processing - so I guess alot more detail could be got from the Portra.
Furthermore, here in Sweden the M8 will put you back a hefty $7.5
So if I must add digital to my film cameras again and still be able to use my Leica lenses, the R-D1s seems to be it!
Attachments
Bob_McBob
My paycheque goes to RFF
Just do it. Buy from matsuiyastore on eBay.
LCT
ex-newbie
Hi Mani yes but it's not an all risk warranty i'm afraid. My R-D1s RF was OK in Italy according to the photo shop who sold me the body there but it was misaligned on delivery in France. Been repaired for free by Epson though.mani said:
MCTuomey
Veteran
Bob_McBob said:
Bob, a question: what to do for warranty work if the camera is bought from matsuiyastore? Will the camera have to be sent back to Japan?
I have bought from matsuiyastore in the past. Their packaging leaves a bit to be desired, not so much for lenses, but for an alignment-sensitive R-D1(s) maybe so. I wonder about the practicality of using their warranty service, if necessary.
emraphoto
Veteran
a/ get the r-d1s. it's an absolute joy to use and produces really amazing files!
b/ i assure you (i own both) that there are considerable differences in the files of an m8 and an r-d1s.
it's still an awesome camera though!
b/ i assure you (i own both) that there are considerable differences in the files of an m8 and an r-d1s.
it's still an awesome camera though!
mani
Well-known
Cheers John!
I think I can commonly see a tendency (on flickr etc) for users of the R-D1 to graduate to the M8. The artistic merit of their images isn't necessarily transformed but I've seen (on Sean Reid's site and elsewhere) that the M8 is capable of very good files indeed.
But for my purposes at the moment, the R-D1s files will be more than good enough I think.
I think I can commonly see a tendency (on flickr etc) for users of the R-D1 to graduate to the M8. The artistic merit of their images isn't necessarily transformed
but I've seen (on Sean Reid's site and elsewhere) that the M8 is capable of very good files indeed.But for my purposes at the moment, the R-D1s files will be more than good enough I think.
emraphoto
Veteran
the r-d1s does indeed produce awsome images. my skills are yet to surpass what it can do!
i have hauled the r-d1s around the world in a little army surplus satchel and not a SINGLE problem!
cheers
john
i have hauled the r-d1s around the world in a little army surplus satchel and not a SINGLE problem!
cheers
john
mani
Well-known
emraphoto said:
Now I think that's what I'd call my credit-card getting a sucker punch!
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Buy one! I loved mine and had to give it up to finance other purchases. But the camera let me use all of my LTM and M glass, with a couple of exceptions and I found the camera was the one I chose to actually have in the bag, time after time.
mwooten
light user
mani,
I've had my RD1s for about 18 months now. I bought new from Robert White, and they shipped it all the way over the ocean and down the east coast of the USA to me in South Carolina. They checked the camera out before shipping it, and it arrived in great shape. Since you are in Europe I would recomend getting one of Robert White's remaining demo units. They have a year's warranty, and no need to ship half-way around the world.
I've had my RD1s for about 18 months now. I bought new from Robert White, and they shipped it all the way over the ocean and down the east coast of the USA to me in South Carolina. They checked the camera out before shipping it, and it arrived in great shape. Since you are in Europe I would recomend getting one of Robert White's remaining demo units. They have a year's warranty, and no need to ship half-way around the world.
mn4367
Established
I have the R-D1 for more than a year now and now problems so far. I had to adjust the finder, but with the advice from the threads in this forum this was quickly done. It is still very slightly tilted but I doubt that this has/had an impact on precise focusing. Among the other host of useful information on Rich Cutlers excellent R-D1 site you'll find some notes on R-D1 service in Europe.
There are many aspects to judge a camera: reliability, ergonomics, file quality, price, brand and whateever else somebody may choose. Looking through the forums my impression was that at least the ergonomics of the R-D1 are considered to be a little superior to the M8.
Usabilty of a camera is often underrated. If it's difficult to use a tool it's difficult to get good results. But that again is more a matter of taste. For me the R-D1 is a pretty much classical camera and I like that.
Regarding "file quality" I think the M8 can produce "better" results. In my opinion better means mostly resolution here. But it depends on what you want to do with your files. If you wan't to do large prints my personal experience is that up to 60x40cm there is no major problem with the R-D1. This should be enough even for exhibitions. As some other poster here said a while ago the increase of resolution is more evolutionary than revolutionary.
The swan shot in this thread is on my wall at home. It was processed with Lightroom and PhotoZoom Pro and printed on an Epson 9800 at 60x40cm on Hahnemühle Photo Rag. To me it looks beautiful ad I doubt that with the M8 the result would have been so much "better", whatever better could mean here.
Nevertheless I have to admit that I also like to own an M8, but I still can't afford it. And at the moment I doubt that I'd buy one If I could. I'm not sure if the advantages justify this enormous price difference. This may be clearly different for other buyers.
A footnote about the ongoing discussion about "file quality" everywhere on the web: two weeks ago I was at the HCB Early Works exhibition in Munich. They had about 30-40 pictures from the early thirties, all enlarged to about 60x40 cm. If you do "pixel peeping" with these prints the result would be some like the following: some seem to be out of focus, some apear very soft, sometimes there is a lot of noise (years ago called grain), some have halos and pictures with razor sharp micro details are mostly missing. So what? These pictures are brilliant masterpieces even if their "file quality" wouldn't stand today's "requirements" of many posters out there on the web. To a great extent the discussion about minor file quality compared to that of the M8 is ridiculous. If your image isnt good, Mega Pixel won't save it. If it is good, Mega Pixel are of minor interest. More Mega Pixel won't let you take better images.
Thumbs up for the R-D1. I like this camera very much and it fits my needs very well. Try it. If you don't like it, it's OK, take another one. If you like it, be happy with it.
And don't forget to post some pictures! ;-)
There are many aspects to judge a camera: reliability, ergonomics, file quality, price, brand and whateever else somebody may choose. Looking through the forums my impression was that at least the ergonomics of the R-D1 are considered to be a little superior to the M8.
Usabilty of a camera is often underrated. If it's difficult to use a tool it's difficult to get good results. But that again is more a matter of taste. For me the R-D1 is a pretty much classical camera and I like that.
Regarding "file quality" I think the M8 can produce "better" results. In my opinion better means mostly resolution here. But it depends on what you want to do with your files. If you wan't to do large prints my personal experience is that up to 60x40cm there is no major problem with the R-D1. This should be enough even for exhibitions. As some other poster here said a while ago the increase of resolution is more evolutionary than revolutionary.
The swan shot in this thread is on my wall at home. It was processed with Lightroom and PhotoZoom Pro and printed on an Epson 9800 at 60x40cm on Hahnemühle Photo Rag. To me it looks beautiful ad I doubt that with the M8 the result would have been so much "better", whatever better could mean here.
Nevertheless I have to admit that I also like to own an M8, but I still can't afford it. And at the moment I doubt that I'd buy one If I could. I'm not sure if the advantages justify this enormous price difference. This may be clearly different for other buyers.
A footnote about the ongoing discussion about "file quality" everywhere on the web: two weeks ago I was at the HCB Early Works exhibition in Munich. They had about 30-40 pictures from the early thirties, all enlarged to about 60x40 cm. If you do "pixel peeping" with these prints the result would be some like the following: some seem to be out of focus, some apear very soft, sometimes there is a lot of noise (years ago called grain), some have halos and pictures with razor sharp micro details are mostly missing. So what? These pictures are brilliant masterpieces even if their "file quality" wouldn't stand today's "requirements" of many posters out there on the web. To a great extent the discussion about minor file quality compared to that of the M8 is ridiculous. If your image isnt good, Mega Pixel won't save it. If it is good, Mega Pixel are of minor interest. More Mega Pixel won't let you take better images.
Thumbs up for the R-D1. I like this camera very much and it fits my needs very well. Try it. If you don't like it, it's OK, take another one. If you like it, be happy with it.
And don't forget to post some pictures! ;-)
kevin m
Veteran
Michael, thanks for the links and the informative post.
I might have to try one of these cameras, yet!
I might have to try one of these cameras, yet!