R2M film transport

[imush]

I've bought an R2M about a year ago and am generally very pleased with it. However, a couple of annoying small inconveniences make me wonder if this is only my camera or every user sees this:

1. The sprocket holes are not aligned well with the frames. When you cut the film, I have to cut close to the edge of the sprocket hole. That makes the strip edges go through sprocket holes (or very close to it, and I need to take additional care to cut ~0.3mm off center to avoid the sprocket holes). Is this problem fixable, or a permanent birth defect?

2. The rewind knob can sometimes interfere with the normal winding of the film, and you have to make sure that it is completely sunk in its hole. I once pulled the shutter/wind lever too hard while the knob was not all the way down, and the film got ripped (only one frame was damaged, but it could well rip apart altogether).

3. Why does my developed film have strange speckles/marks between the sprocket holes? I thought it was from the reels at first, but film from my other cameras (a Spotmatic and a Vitessa) does not have that. Again, it is not too important since it does not affect the image part of the film, but still interesting. Perhaps my film transport mechanism needs to be checked?

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

How would sprocket holes ever be aligned with frames?

 

[imush]

How would sprocket holes ever be aligned with frames?

I mean that the unexposed space between frames typically should be between sprocket holes, so that when you cut the film into strips, you do not have to cut through the holes.

The resulting edges of strips with holes in them are not well liked by the film scanners that eat the strips via a motorized holder (e.g. the holder for Nikon Coolscan).

 

[blackwave]

How would sprocket holes ever be aligned with frames?

Dude, seriously.. the camera is busted. Send it back! Don't you know that if they were lined up you could cover 11 zones on your exposures and be in the right place at the right time always?

:angel:

 

[ywenz]

I mean that the unexposed space between frames typically should be between sprocket holes, so that when you cut the film into strips, you do not have to cut through the holes.

I've never experienced that with any of my film cameras. The alignment of individual frames with sprocket holes should be entirely based on how you mount the roll. Plus the mechanism of the advance gear engaging film travel is not exactly precise enough where you'd expect perfect alignment in every single roll.

 

[imush]

I've never experienced that with any of my film cameras. The alignment of individual frames with sprocket holes should be entirely based on how you mount the roll. Plus the mechanism of the advance gear engaging film travel is not exactly precise enough where you'd expect perfect alignment in every single roll.

Somehow I do not remember having to cut through holes of my other negatives. And yes, I believe the film advance stop is aligned with the roller that grabs the holes. So it could (should?) be made so that the position of the frame is always exact with respect to the sprocket holes.

And it is so with the Bessa: the alignment is the same on all films, just not in the naturally convenient spot.

Once again, I do not think this very important, just an observation. So posters need not bother telling me how I should have bought a used Leica. If it were within my budget, I would perhaps get a lens, not another camera.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

So posters need not bother telling me how I should have bought a used Leica.

A used Leica M6 would suit you fine.

It would still not align the photos with the sprocket holes.

But you may feel happier about it.

 

[mirrored]

Somehow I do not remember having to cut through holes of my other negatives.

I do not remember too. It's somewhat funny never thinked idea, but if met earlier, it would be remembered I suppose. Perhaps your camera need opening and replace one certain toothed wheel one tooth different position. That's funny too, if this is a matter.

 

[mirrored]

First roll developed and negatives doesn't different to my other cameras. Always cutting between holes and frames. 😉

 

[sauerwald]

I've never experienced that with any of my film cameras. The alignment of individual frames with sprocket holes should be entirely based on how you mount the roll. Plus the mechanism of the advance gear engaging film travel is not exactly precise enough where you'd expect perfect alignment in every single roll.

The dimensions for 35mm film are standardized in SMPTE 139M, and it defines a pitch between sprocket holes of 4.75mm. Tradition has the pitch between frames of 35mm film being 38mm - a 36mm wide image area with 2mm of space between frames. Some cameras are designed with gearing such that the film advance lever moves exactly 8 sprocket holes - if the toothed roller on the takeup side of the shutter is aligned properly, then this will result in the space between frames always falling between sprocket holes. Many cameras simply rotate the takeup spool a certain number of revolutions for each cranking of the film advance lever, which means that there is no consistent relationship between edge of frame and sprocket hole.

FWIW, motion pictures which have 4 sprocket holes per frame, also have a fixed, well defined position of the sprocket holes relative to the frame. I am not aware of any such standard applying to still cameras.

 

[MarkoKovacevic]

I sometimes cut through the holes even on the negatives from my Nikon F5.

 

[imush]

Now I also have an R4m, and I guess they just don't care about this when they manufacture the Bessas. The space between frames on the R4M always falls squarely between sprocket holes. It never shifts, the alignment is always the same.

I consider that a manufacturing defect that should be easy to fix. It was probably less important 20 years ago than today with the film scanners that do not like the holes in the edge that is fed into them. Still, this never happened with my older 35mm cameras; Voigtlander Vitessa, Pentax Spotmatic, Pentax K1000 and A3000 always aligned the frames correctly to the sprocket holes.

 

[DNG]

Now I also have an R4m, and I guess they just don't care about this when they manufacture the Bessas. The space between frames on the R4M always falls squarely between sprocket holes. It never shifts, the alignment is always the same.

I consider that a manufacturing defect that should be easy to fix. It was probably less important 20 years ago than today with the film scanners that do not like the holes in the edge that is fed into them. Still, this never happened with my older 35mm cameras; Voigtlander Vitessa, Pentax Spotmatic, Pentax K1000 and A3000 always aligned the frames correctly to the sprocket holes.

I just had to look at my developed film to check this out.
What I found......

On a cheap p/s from 11 years ago..... the in between frame spaces had no sprocket holes

On my M5.... the in between frame spaces was had no sprocket holes

So, maybe there is a standard for still cameras also. But, as long as the frames are not overlapping and, the space is consistent... no worry.

As far as Cosina adjusting it (in/or out) of warranty....That's another question?

 

[imush]

I just had to look at my developed film to check this out.
What I found......

On a cheap p/s from 11 years ago..... the in between frame spaces had no sprocket holes

On my M5.... the in between frame spaces was had no sprocket holes

So, maybe there is a standard for still cameras also. But, as long as the frames are not overlapping and, the space is consistent... no worry.

As far as Cosina adjusting it (in/or out) of warranty....That's another question?

I am not worried, and all else considered it is a minor quirk. Nikon Coolscan IV ED is the most disgruntled consumer of these frames, sometimes refusing to bite and bending the corners a bit. But with time I learned how to feed them carefully.

But if Pentax, and Nikon, and Yashica, and the old Voigtlander have all been aligning the frames between holes, even though they were probably not worried about scanning, why can't Cosina?

By the way, if I give C41 film to develop and scan at a place like Costco, more often than not I get scans with side one sliced off, and a strip of the next frame there. So the Fuji Frontier minilab, or whatever they use, also gets confused.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I had never thought of this, but I think I have cut through holes for many years, not only with Bessas... Just checked old film strips and they have the holes placed differently...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[luiman]

I have the same problem with my R2A. I suspect it also depends on the tension of the film. Now I tried not to stretch the film when loading it to see what happens. The repair is possible, but I wonder if it's worth until the frames do not overlap...