R3A Moving Frame Lines

simplicity

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When I focus on the R3A, the frame lines move. Although the line displacement is quite considerable, the camera still focuses quite well. Since I am using an external viewfinder, the issue is more of a minor nuisance rather than an actual problem. Does anyone know what causes the frame lines to skew? A local camera shop told me it was for parallax error compensation, but I don’t think this is the case because the frame lines never moved before last week. If I have to send the camera back to Seoul again (shutter issue last month), my wife may force-feed me digestive aids to prevent future GAS occurrences. Any thoughts?
 
Thanks for your reply Manolo, I appreciate your response. Out of curiosity, why is it a new phenomena; the frame lines hadn’t moved before. It isn’t something that one could miss; even the most unobservant individual couldn’t miss seeing the 90mm frame lines almost meeting the RF patch.

Thanks, again 🙂
 
Thanks Huck.

Yes, they are moving down and to the right; it is parallax correction. Quite strange that the lines didn't move before. Well, I can take comfort in knowing that I don't have to ship the camera for repair. 🙂 Could it be the case that something was wrong before and that it corrected itself from use?
 
Thanks Frank. Could well be the case as I am not exactly the most observant person. However, to miss such an obvious thing is somewhat unusual for my overall character; perhaps I should upgrade the prescription for my glasses 🙂
 
Interesting 2REP,

When you say the focusing patch moves, do you mean that it appears to go up and to the right? At first I thought that my patch was moving up and right, then realized that it was an optical illusion and that the frame lines are indeed what are moving.
 
simplicity said:
Interesting 2REP,

When you say the focusing patch moves, do you mean that it appears to go up and to the right? At first I thought that my patch was moving up and right, then realized that it was an optical illusion and that the frame lines are indeed what are moving.

I'm pretty sure the patch was moving ... but I'll try it again tonight ...

stay tune for more breaking new ... oops sorry 😛
 
stay tune for more breaking new ... oops sorry

LOL... thanks for doing the check on that, i look forward to seeing your results... i should also mention that i made an error when i mentined that the patch appears to go up and to the right i actually meant up and to the left...
 
Once I get my new R3A which is stuck in limbo, the frame-lines shall move me. 😎
 
simplicity said:
LOL... thanks for doing the check on that, i look forward to seeing your results... i should also mention that i made an error when i mentined that the patch appears to go up and to the right i actually meant up and to the left...

may have to delay the test to tonight ... I was so held up with a very "sick" computer from my friend ...

sorry Simplicity .. will let you know the result ASAP

Meanwhile, please enjoy the following pic (taken when I was in Sydney with R2A and CV 50 Nokton)
 
I feel a bit like Galileo here... "Nevertheless, it DOES move," IT in this case being the frameline, and this being true of all Bessas, all Leicas, and just about every other RF camera with parallax-compensating projected framelines.

It may LOOK as if it's the focusing patch that's moving, because in the dark viewfinder, your eye naturally tends to fix itself on the bright framelines, and interpret the relative motion as movement of the focusing patch -- kind of like how, when you're riding a train and looking out the window, your brain interprets the window as being stationary and the scenery as moving past it, even though you know intellectually that the scenery is standing still and it's really the window (and the rest of the train) that's moving.

But if you put the camera on a tripod and watch carefully as you focus from infinity to closest distance, you'll see that it's the framelines that move diagonally against the background scene.

If you look at a diagram of a rangefinder's optics (such as the one below, showing a Leica rangefinder, that I linked from Erwin Puts' website) you can see that the white framelines are created by a slotted mask (thin metal on most cameras; photographically printed on the Canon 7 and 7s) that's illuminated by the frosted window on the front of the camera. This mask is linked to the focus coupling arm, causing it to move diagonally as the camera is focused to and fro. (In the diagram, you can see the little pin that does this job on a Leica rangefinder in the upper-right corner of the mask.) This movement of the mask causes the framelines in the finder to move, so that as you frame the picture within the lines, you compensate for parallax (the difference between what the viewfinder window sees and what the lens sees. Since the lens is diagonally below the viewfinder on most cameras, the mask has to move diagonally to compensate for it.)

m6rf.jpg


Off the top of my head, I can think of only one family of 35mm projected-frame rangefinder cameras that works differently from this, and that's Fuji's erstwhile line of leaf-shutter cameras -- the ones that focused via a thumbwheel on the back. On these, as you focus, the entire front viewfinder window pivots from side to side as you turn the thumbwheel, moving the outer viewfinder image relative to the rangefinder's secondary image. This action also causes the bright framelines to move from side to side, compensating for the horizontal portion of the parallax. The frameline mask still has to move vertically to compensate for the vertical portion, but at least it only has to move in one direction. (So you Fuji owners who think you must be getting dizzy because everything seems to sway when you look through the finders of your cameras while focusing -- relax, it's supposed to do that!)
 
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Brilliant Galileo! Thanks much for the detailed explanation (complete with diagram, even). I checked out the Erwin Puts’ site, some decent information there. Again thanks for taking the time to post.

Michael
 
The lines only move to any noticeable degree when you are focusing on something up close. Maybe you didn't notice it before because you weren't in a focusing situation that required any significant/noticeable amount of movement.

Just a guess . . .
 
okay confirm it was the frame line that moves .... I was too "focus" on the focusing patch .. once I didn't pay attention to the focus patch I can see the frame line moves

special thanks to jlw for the details!
 
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