NicoM
Well-known
I'm thinking of trading in my R2A for an R4M. I'm probably going to get a 21mm, but I'm wondering how the R4M would perform with my 35mm.
Is it hard to compose with the smaller framelines?
Is it hard to compose with the smaller framelines?
marek_
Established
I had an R4M and found I didn't have any problems. It is a smaller frame compared to higher magnifications but you get to see a lot of what's outside the frame, which I like. It was nice not having to strain my eyes searching the edges like I have to with some other cameras.
What 21mm will you be sticking onto it? Be aware that anything longer than a voigtlander 21 f4.0 will encroach quite a bit into the viewfinder. My Super-Elmar blocked a large portion of the lower right side.
What 21mm will you be sticking onto it? Be aware that anything longer than a voigtlander 21 f4.0 will encroach quite a bit into the viewfinder. My Super-Elmar blocked a large portion of the lower right side.
NicoM
Well-known
I'm probably going to go with the 21mm f4. Thanks for the info about finder blockage, I did not know about that.
alfredian
Well-known
R4M is a great body
R4M is a great body
The R4M is great with anything 50mm and wider. The Conventional Wiz is that the viewing area for the "longer" focal lengths is too short a baseline, etc. I use the R4M with the CV Skopar 35/2.5 (LTM adapted) without the added hood. This leaves the entire (expansive) viewing area unobstructed.
At 50mm, I've used both the CV Skopar 50/2.5 and a Summicron 50 v4. Both packages are very compact & focus perfectly well. The 'cron on the R4M is a great combination.
R4M is a great body
The R4M is great with anything 50mm and wider. The Conventional Wiz is that the viewing area for the "longer" focal lengths is too short a baseline, etc. I use the R4M with the CV Skopar 35/2.5 (LTM adapted) without the added hood. This leaves the entire (expansive) viewing area unobstructed.
At 50mm, I've used both the CV Skopar 50/2.5 and a Summicron 50 v4. Both packages are very compact & focus perfectly well. The 'cron on the R4M is a great combination.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
The R4M is a pleasure to work with...
For a 35mm lens you enjoy a lot of out of the frame view, and that's great IMO, even more for street, where things quickly moving can be seen on time, before they unexpectedly come into frame just when we hit the shutter... Apart from the 35mm framelines, for that focal length, in the outer space you see the 21mm framelines too, and they help a lot, aligned with out of frame scene's verticals, when they're there only and you can't use the 35mm framelines, for precise leveling of the camera (handheld) to control perspective distortion.
It's one of the greatest cameras I've used... A whole world for wide shooting, and nothing else comes close to it... I even use my 15mm with the whole window, a la SLR...
I use other Bessas too, but I think the R4M is a camera everybody should have or at least try... Its meter is really trustable, more sensitive in the center of the frame and its bottom, to avoid being fooled by overcast sky, and I use its 1/2000th constantly. The camera feels very solid and well built.
Cheers,
Juan
For a 35mm lens you enjoy a lot of out of the frame view, and that's great IMO, even more for street, where things quickly moving can be seen on time, before they unexpectedly come into frame just when we hit the shutter... Apart from the 35mm framelines, for that focal length, in the outer space you see the 21mm framelines too, and they help a lot, aligned with out of frame scene's verticals, when they're there only and you can't use the 35mm framelines, for precise leveling of the camera (handheld) to control perspective distortion.
It's one of the greatest cameras I've used... A whole world for wide shooting, and nothing else comes close to it... I even use my 15mm with the whole window, a la SLR...
I use other Bessas too, but I think the R4M is a camera everybody should have or at least try... Its meter is really trustable, more sensitive in the center of the frame and its bottom, to avoid being fooled by overcast sky, and I use its 1/2000th constantly. The camera feels very solid and well built.
Cheers,
Juan
NicoM
Well-known
So from I'm assuming from marek's comment that both the 35mm 1.2 and 21mm 1.8 will block a large part of the finder?
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Hi Nico,
I don't find it hard: the size is enough... Anyway I prefer to see through camera as little as possible... I find it more effective seeing the real world a lot, with the camera down, and then just for a moment, after framing mentally and after waiting for a good moment I raise the camera to quickly check the image limits and shoot... Sometimes I don't even check those limits (I use a 28 a lot) because more than limits or geometric games I care about the separation of elements and the emotive visual narrative, and sometimes I don't raise my camera up to eye level, but to my chest ... All this, obviously for street with rf's: for studio or SLR's or full of time/portraiture shooting, I enjoy composing carefully through cameras, but especially on MF and LF. If your main lens will be a 35, you can also try the R2M/A Bessas, or even the R3M/A for a 1:1 finder and the whole window in an SLR style of view...
Cheers,
Juan
biomed
Veteran
When my R4M arrived in the mail I took some photos through the viewfinder with a P&S digital camera. These will give you a bit of an idea what it looks like. The lenses were first generation CV LTM - 35/2.5 and 21/4.
21/4
35/2.5
The 21/4 blocks a bit of the frame line. The 35/2.5 lens does not block any of the 35 frame. Hope these help.
Mike
21/4
35/2.5
The 21/4 blocks a bit of the frame line. The 35/2.5 lens does not block any of the 35 frame. Hope these help.
Mike
alphonse2501
Established
splash_fr
Member
I use mine a lot with the 21/4.5 Biogon, 35/2.8 Biogon and 50/20 Planar.
I get some finder blockage with all of the lenses but I don't fin it distracting. Composing with the 35 is very good, you can see a lot outside of the frame. I find it straining with the 31, because the lines are so close to the border...
I get some finder blockage with all of the lenses but I don't fin it distracting. Composing with the 35 is very good, you can see a lot outside of the frame. I find it straining with the 31, because the lines are so close to the border...
NicoM
Well-known
Thanks for the responses guys! I actually already own a Bessa R2a, but I was hoping an R4a could replace it for a 21mm and 35mm (Nokton).
I'm going to try to get my hands on one to play with in person before making a decision.
Thanks again!
I'm going to try to get my hands on one to play with in person before making a decision.
Thanks again!
thegman
Veteran
I used to have an R4A, the 35mm lines are not what I'd consider 'ideal', but they are completely usable. A simply superb camera all round though. I used it alongside a Leica M3, the M3 is beautiful and graceful, but the R4A got more work done.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I have the R4A and a Leica M6 which I bought by selling the R3A I owned. Apart from the fact that the weight and build of the M6 'feels' better than the Voigtlander I wonder why I did it. The R3A was a better user camera and I've been tempted several times to sell the M6 and get an R2A instead. The only thing that holds me back is the M6 has framelines for 28mm and by using the whole viewfinder I can judge the 25mm area well enough. Otherwise I have to use a separate viewfinder (which I have) on the R2. Find me an R2 with 28 or (even better) 25mm framelines and the Leica will be sold!
At one time I had all the CV lenses but my own experience has been that I rarely use the 15mm, the 21mm was a bit extreme for general photography but the 25mm was ideal for travel photography. I still have a 28mm but generally skip over it and use either 25mm or 35mm. A 50/2.5 plus the 75 and 90 mm lenses rounds out the collection. I rarely use the 90 but the 35/70 combo is good for a lot of situations. If I rationalised a bit I'd stick with 25/35/50/75.
At one time I had all the CV lenses but my own experience has been that I rarely use the 15mm, the 21mm was a bit extreme for general photography but the 25mm was ideal for travel photography. I still have a 28mm but generally skip over it and use either 25mm or 35mm. A 50/2.5 plus the 75 and 90 mm lenses rounds out the collection. I rarely use the 90 but the 35/70 combo is good for a lot of situations. If I rationalised a bit I'd stick with 25/35/50/75.
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
I've got an R4M + 21mm/f4 Color Skopar and 35mm/f1.2 Nokton (1st version) and it's a joy to use. Previously owned Leice M6TTL with 28mm/f2.8 Elmarit-M, 50mm/f2 Summicron and 9cmm/f4 Elmar and I actually prefer how the Bessa handles (and I'm not so precious about how and where I use it).
I've never been a big fan of 28mm lenses (though I've had a few down the years) as, for me, they're not quite wide enough to get the close-in action or long enough to be useful for portraits. 21mm + 35mm seems like a good pairing for me.
I've never been a big fan of 28mm lenses (though I've had a few down the years) as, for me, they're not quite wide enough to get the close-in action or long enough to be useful for portraits. 21mm + 35mm seems like a good pairing for me.