csaunders
f8 and be there.
Hi,
Having only ever used autofocus SLRs, and having just bought my first rangefinder (a Zeiss Ikon ZM), I am wondering about how other people focus their rangefinders.
I tend to find that I hold the camera up to my eye and then I do a lot of focus 'hunting' to get the images to match up; which sometimes takes 15 seconds or more; and the photo is gone!
Should I learn to guesstimate the distance and prefocus before I hold the camera up to my eye? Should I learn to feel the focus by the position of the tab on the lens? Am I missing something entirely?
Also; I don't know if this is a problem specific to the Ikon, but despite having heard that rangefinders are the ideal camera to focus in low light conditions, sometimes I really struggle to even see the rangefinder patch in low light, let alone line up the images...
One last thing; if you are trying to focus on an area that doesn't have much detail; it is impossible to tell sometimes if the images are lined up since there are no points of reference. What is the secret here?
Would love to hear the details of your focusing habits!
-Christian
Having only ever used autofocus SLRs, and having just bought my first rangefinder (a Zeiss Ikon ZM), I am wondering about how other people focus their rangefinders.
I tend to find that I hold the camera up to my eye and then I do a lot of focus 'hunting' to get the images to match up; which sometimes takes 15 seconds or more; and the photo is gone!
Should I learn to guesstimate the distance and prefocus before I hold the camera up to my eye? Should I learn to feel the focus by the position of the tab on the lens? Am I missing something entirely?
Also; I don't know if this is a problem specific to the Ikon, but despite having heard that rangefinders are the ideal camera to focus in low light conditions, sometimes I really struggle to even see the rangefinder patch in low light, let alone line up the images...
One last thing; if you are trying to focus on an area that doesn't have much detail; it is impossible to tell sometimes if the images are lined up since there are no points of reference. What is the secret here?
Would love to hear the details of your focusing habits!
-Christian
CC72
Established
Set the camera to its hyperfocal distance or zone focus using the depth of field scale.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Hi,
I guess it's mainly a function of experience. Manual focusing is something that has to be learned. The learning curve isn't too steep, though. This includes having a rough idea where you want to focus before starting to focus, and it also includes getting a feel for your camera and lenses, such as instinctively knowing which way to turn the ring. If focusing were difficult, people would have stopped using rangefinders ages ago.
It's also a little device-dependent. I took most of my rangefinder photos on a Bessa. Then I got a Leica M5 which has a much wider rangefinder base, meaning that the image in the rangefinder moves much more as you turn the lens barrel. I regularly had to "hunt" for the image in the beginning before I could get it right. This is more pronounced with cameras with a long rangefinder base, and the Ikon is one of those.
If you miss focus often and can't seem to make out the rangefinder patch, maybe you are not holding the camera right, I made that mistake a long time with my Kiev (which requires a special way of gripping the camera called the "Contax grip", in order not to hold my finger in front of the rangefinder window). With a rangefinder most people hold the camera with their right hand, and use their left hand to focus, from below. RFF member ZorkiKat has a rather illustrative page on holding the camera at http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page356.htm, which also applies to the Zeiss Ikon. All three windows for the rangefinder have to be unobstructed.
There is the very slight possibility that your Ikon has a serious problem with its rangefinder, but that is something I would exclude for the moment as it's highly improbable. It would help to get another rangefinder camera to try it out for comparison (maybe you can try something like a Canonet in a shop somewhere).
) Sometimes I have to turn the camera a little bit, so that horizontal structures can be used for focusing.
Philipp
I guess it's mainly a function of experience. Manual focusing is something that has to be learned. The learning curve isn't too steep, though. This includes having a rough idea where you want to focus before starting to focus, and it also includes getting a feel for your camera and lenses, such as instinctively knowing which way to turn the ring. If focusing were difficult, people would have stopped using rangefinders ages ago.
It's also a little device-dependent. I took most of my rangefinder photos on a Bessa. Then I got a Leica M5 which has a much wider rangefinder base, meaning that the image in the rangefinder moves much more as you turn the lens barrel. I regularly had to "hunt" for the image in the beginning before I could get it right. This is more pronounced with cameras with a long rangefinder base, and the Ikon is one of those.
If you miss focus often and can't seem to make out the rangefinder patch, maybe you are not holding the camera right, I made that mistake a long time with my Kiev (which requires a special way of gripping the camera called the "Contax grip", in order not to hold my finger in front of the rangefinder window). With a rangefinder most people hold the camera with their right hand, and use their left hand to focus, from below. RFF member ZorkiKat has a rather illustrative page on holding the camera at http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page356.htm, which also applies to the Zeiss Ikon. All three windows for the rangefinder have to be unobstructed.
There is the very slight possibility that your Ikon has a serious problem with its rangefinder, but that is something I would exclude for the moment as it's highly improbable. It would help to get another rangefinder camera to try it out for comparison (maybe you can try something like a Canonet in a shop somewhere).
Look for some detail. You need some detail to focus. This also gets better with experience; hardly any surface has no detail at all, unless you focus on a wall of fog (and then there's nothing on the final image that is in focus anyway
) Sometimes I have to turn the camera a little bit, so that horizontal structures can be used for focusing.Philipp
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csaunders
f8 and be there.
Thanks for the replies.
@CC72
What is Hyperfocus? I googled it but couldn't find any good explanations...
@philipp
Thankfully, I am not missing focus at all; it just seems to take an inordinately long time for me to find it! I wasn't sure of the need for a long rangefinder base; but I guess it's a curse and a blessing, since you can obviously sense much finer changes in focus, but it takes more movement to get there...
Sounds to me like I just need to get used to the system and practice, practice, practice.
I'd still like to hear from any others though!
-C
@CC72
What is Hyperfocus? I googled it but couldn't find any good explanations...
@philipp
Thankfully, I am not missing focus at all; it just seems to take an inordinately long time for me to find it! I wasn't sure of the need for a long rangefinder base; but I guess it's a curse and a blessing, since you can obviously sense much finer changes in focus, but it takes more movement to get there...
Sounds to me like I just need to get used to the system and practice, practice, practice.
I'd still like to hear from any others though!
-C
charlesfoto
Established
Come back in a few months, after having spent time shooting, and I'll bet you will say that you've got the focusing down to the quickness you need for those candids. It's all a matter of experience and knowing your camera. Enjoy the ZI.
shutterfiend
cheap and lazy
If you can set your aperture to f/4 or smaller you don't need to be real accurate. If I'm taking a picture of my children who are very good at siiting still for about a second I may focus on thier ears instead of their eyes and still get their eyes in sharp focus. Also some rangefinder patches are brighter than others. There are tips on this forum on how to brighten your patch.
ChrisN
Striving
Tip: always return the lens to infinity focus after a shot. That way you will only move the focus ring in one direction, smoothly, and stop immediately the images line up, don't hunt back and forward.
Edit:
Hyper-focal distance refers to the range that is in focus at dirrerent apertures.
In this photo, the lens is set to f/8, the infinity mark is set at f/8 on the right side of the scale, and the other f/8 on the left side aligns with just under 3 meters. Everything between 3 meters and infinity will be in reasonably sharp focus.
Edit:
Hyper-focal distance refers to the range that is in focus at dirrerent apertures.
In this photo, the lens is set to f/8, the infinity mark is set at f/8 on the right side of the scale, and the other f/8 on the left side aligns with just under 3 meters. Everything between 3 meters and infinity will be in reasonably sharp focus.
Attachments
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payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Christian, one way to speed things up might be to set the lens, by scale, to the distance you estimate. Then, when you bring the camera up to your eye, you should be very nearly in focus already. It is easiest to focus on lines vertical or close to vertical. If there are no vertical lines in the image, turn the camera through 90 degrees and use a horizontal line. If you are photographing a creature with eyes from fairly close up in fairly good light, the shine from an eye can be used. An old trick is to focus on a nose, if that is vertical, and count on depth of field to bring the eyes just beyond it into focus.
You might spend several minutes each day just focussing on objects of different shapes and at different distances. Don't take any pictures -- just practise the focussing part. It will soon become second nature.
You might spend several minutes each day just focussing on objects of different shapes and at different distances. Don't take any pictures -- just practise the focussing part. It will soon become second nature.
csaunders
f8 and be there.
Thanks for that image. That really helps. To be honest; I had no idea what all those markings were; I have been ignoring them on my lenses for years!
Following the logic, it means that whatever distances show between the two aperture marks is in focus, right?
I have just given this a go around the house and it works fantastic! I am quite good at estimating distances so things are almost in perfect focus before I even put the camera to my eye!
Thanks guys; my focusing has gone from zero to hero in a matter of hours!
-Christian
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Welcome then to our new rangefinder focusing hero The RFF community is always glad to be of service.
The RFF community is always glad to be of service.
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payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Excellent. Time to show us some Hero Pictures.
ferider
Veteran
Might sound strange, but for fast lenses, and shallow DOF, I find
it often faster to move the body instead of focusing the lens.
Roland.
it often faster to move the body instead of focusing the lens.
Roland.
keithwms
Established
Okay, here is how I focus.
First I look at the scene and determine the near and far points.
Next I scale focus, just as Payasam mentioned, determining the optimum aperture from the near/far points and adjusting that for optimum sharpness while trying not to open up or stop down excessively. For my preferred RFs (mamiya 6) there are some recommendations for aperture corrections that can be found on Ken Rockwell's site, but after a few shots you get a feel for it and don't need a chart.
Then I look through the VF and frame the shot, make minor focusing adjustments if I feel like it, and that's it, ready to shoot.
If you have good, accurate scales on your lenses, this prefocusing procedure is very helpful, especially for street work when you don't want to walk around holding the camera up your eye for a long time. In fact, everybody can learn to scale focus and work entirely without a rangefinder patch or even a viewfinder, and sometimes that is a useful skill to have.
P.S. One small beginners' tip on using the RF patch: if you need to shoot wide open so that focus is really critical and you are having a tough time getting your patch to line up well, try rotating the camera slightly as you focus and look at the patch. Sometimes the horizontal features in the scene will be more distinct (e.g. mountains, rooftops, umbrellas etc.) and it's actually a bit easier to focus the patch vertically rather than side to side. So if you 'wobble' while you focus you can focus extremely precisely. I have noticed that this can also help reduce the minor focusing errors that you can get from a slightly off-axis eyepoint.
First I look at the scene and determine the near and far points.
Next I scale focus, just as Payasam mentioned, determining the optimum aperture from the near/far points and adjusting that for optimum sharpness while trying not to open up or stop down excessively. For my preferred RFs (mamiya 6) there are some recommendations for aperture corrections that can be found on Ken Rockwell's site, but after a few shots you get a feel for it and don't need a chart.
Then I look through the VF and frame the shot, make minor focusing adjustments if I feel like it, and that's it, ready to shoot.
If you have good, accurate scales on your lenses, this prefocusing procedure is very helpful, especially for street work when you don't want to walk around holding the camera up your eye for a long time. In fact, everybody can learn to scale focus and work entirely without a rangefinder patch or even a viewfinder, and sometimes that is a useful skill to have.
P.S. One small beginners' tip on using the RF patch: if you need to shoot wide open so that focus is really critical and you are having a tough time getting your patch to line up well, try rotating the camera slightly as you focus and look at the patch. Sometimes the horizontal features in the scene will be more distinct (e.g. mountains, rooftops, umbrellas etc.) and it's actually a bit easier to focus the patch vertically rather than side to side. So if you 'wobble' while you focus you can focus extremely precisely. I have noticed that this can also help reduce the minor focusing errors that you can get from a slightly off-axis eyepoint.
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jjcha
Established
Not strange at all. I use this technique all the time, especially for close in shots. You have to as you may not be within the minimum focusing distance.ferider said:
Another tip - if you're having difficulty finding the focusing patch, make sure you're looking straight through the viewfinder. Some cameras (dunno about the ikon) are sensitive to this, where the patch is difficult to see unless you're looking straight on.
Best regards,
-Jason
Jonathan R
Well-known
I find it takes perceptible nanoseconds for my brain to register whether the rangefinder image lies to the right or left of the true image, and thus which way to turn the focus ring. My focusing became a lot faster when someone on another forum advised restoring the lens to infinity after each shot (this quickly becomes habitual). Then you only have to turn the focus ring in one direction. Shoot, he advised, as soon as the images coincide. If you turn too far and have to come back, the extra time it takes feels like an age.
If you need to pre-focus as you rush towards your taking position, that too is easier from the infinity mark, and in fact you can learn to set standard distances like 3m by feel alone - just a quick turn of the wrist.
I hope this helps.
If you need to pre-focus as you rush towards your taking position, that too is easier from the infinity mark, and in fact you can learn to set standard distances like 3m by feel alone - just a quick turn of the wrist.
I hope this helps.
csaunders
f8 and be there.
jjcha said:
Yes, the Ikon is very susceptible to this. In fact, I find I have to hold my eye a centimeter or two away from the finder (and not pressing on it like I would with my SLR) as well as centred, in order to get a bright patch.
Thanks all who contributed; all great advice. I'll try to remember to reset to infinity in between shots, but I doubt I'll be that disciplined!
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Roland, I often set the lens to closest distance and then focus by moving back and forth. Jason has expressed it rather better.
Rico
Well-known
Another option is focus-by-feel, meaning that the tab position tells you the distance selected. Some practice with your lens is required, and you must be able to estimate distance. I have no experience, however, with the ZM focus "hump".
bwillis
Member
excellent dialogue here. very helpful tips