Bill Pierce
Well-known
Working recently with the Panasonic G1, an adapter and my existing rangefinder lenses reinforced for me what it is I look for in a rangefinder camera.
(1) Number one is the bright line viewfinder with it’s ability to show you everything sharp, front to back, and even what is outside of the frame line. Bright line finders went into the accessory shoe of the G3 almost immediately. I didn’t find the G1 lcd viewfinder a substitute for that. Truth is, I use my accessory bright line finders on little point and pushes and even big DSLR’s on occasion.
(2) Small and quiet comes next - and the G1 scored in that department.
(3) Finally, the ability to focus accurately with high aperture lenses. For now this means using my Cosina and Leitz lenses with adapters. This was easy in dim light, using the lenses wide open or near wide open and manually focusing at those apertures. It took very little time to reduce to habit the button pushing necessary to magnify the lcd image for focusing and then return to viewing with it or an accessory finder. And the magnified manual focusing turned out to be quite accurate.
Sometimes using high-speed lenses in decent light also let me keep the camera at the lower ISO’s that work best for a small sensor camera.
Of course, most of the manual lenses were originally designed for full frame 35mm use; so, the popular 28 to 50mm range is a 56 to 100 range.
While the small image sensor delivered remarkably good images, all other things being equal, it’s likely a bigger sensor will do better especially at high ISO’s that I use a lot. It also produces less of a change in effective focal length. What I really look forward to is a mirrorless body with a C size sensor and adapters for my RF lenses. That would really make me happy.
The one thing I didn’t miss, the actual rangefinder itself. I just want accurate focus and I don’t care how I achieve it.
Anybody else have thoughts on a rangefinderless rangefinder?
Bill
(1) Number one is the bright line viewfinder with it’s ability to show you everything sharp, front to back, and even what is outside of the frame line. Bright line finders went into the accessory shoe of the G3 almost immediately. I didn’t find the G1 lcd viewfinder a substitute for that. Truth is, I use my accessory bright line finders on little point and pushes and even big DSLR’s on occasion.
(2) Small and quiet comes next - and the G1 scored in that department.
(3) Finally, the ability to focus accurately with high aperture lenses. For now this means using my Cosina and Leitz lenses with adapters. This was easy in dim light, using the lenses wide open or near wide open and manually focusing at those apertures. It took very little time to reduce to habit the button pushing necessary to magnify the lcd image for focusing and then return to viewing with it or an accessory finder. And the magnified manual focusing turned out to be quite accurate.
Sometimes using high-speed lenses in decent light also let me keep the camera at the lower ISO’s that work best for a small sensor camera.
Of course, most of the manual lenses were originally designed for full frame 35mm use; so, the popular 28 to 50mm range is a 56 to 100 range.
While the small image sensor delivered remarkably good images, all other things being equal, it’s likely a bigger sensor will do better especially at high ISO’s that I use a lot. It also produces less of a change in effective focal length. What I really look forward to is a mirrorless body with a C size sensor and adapters for my RF lenses. That would really make me happy.
The one thing I didn’t miss, the actual rangefinder itself. I just want accurate focus and I don’t care how I achieve it.
Anybody else have thoughts on a rangefinderless rangefinder?
Bill
Last edited:
andrewteee
Established
My first post here : ) I don't see a reason why they can't move the EVF to the left side of the camera and make the camera design less DSLR-like. I would love to see more rangefinderless rangefinder-like cameras. However it's the handled, the ability to easily focus and compose in any light view EVF would be that kind of camera. I wish my Sigma DP1 with its Foveon sensor had this.
BTW I ended up in this forum because of a Zeiss Ikon that I fell in love with but unfortunately is not practical for this period of my life. So I'm on the quest for that experience in digital form. A "rangefinder" for the 21st century.
BTW I ended up in this forum because of a Zeiss Ikon that I fell in love with but unfortunately is not practical for this period of my life. So I'm on the quest for that experience in digital form. A "rangefinder" for the 21st century.
Using brightlines on the G1 makes it more rangefinder-like, for sure. I've mentioned doing that in other posts but this is the first time I've heard of someone actually doing it. 
This makes for a very useful hybrid system -- RF-like or SLR-like depending on the subject and situation.
This makes for a very useful hybrid system -- RF-like or SLR-like depending on the subject and situation.
hawkeye
steve
Hi Bill
I met you a millions years ago in Seattle at Photo Printworks, a gallery I owned.
I'm confused are you talking about the Panasonic G1 Micro 4/3 camera? I can't find any reference to a G3 on the web.
I have a LX3 which I use with a 24mm accessory Viewfinder and it is almost a Leica CL.
Steve Meltzer
I met you a millions years ago in Seattle at Photo Printworks, a gallery I owned.
I'm confused are you talking about the Panasonic G1 Micro 4/3 camera? I can't find any reference to a G3 on the web.
I have a LX3 which I use with a 24mm accessory Viewfinder and it is almost a Leica CL.
Steve Meltzer
Bill Pierce
Well-known
Steve -
My apologies. Of course I meant the G1. (I'm doing my taxes today, and it has curdled my brain.) Hope all is well in Seattle.
Bill
Bill Pierce
Well-known
Using brightlines on the G1 makes it more rangefinder-like, for sure. I've mentioned doing that in other posts but this is the first time I've heard of someone actually doing it.
I started putting bright line finders on Nikon SLR's (with lenses up to 135mm) covering the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland in the early 70's. Sort of kept you aware of the outside world if you found yourself between two groups that didn't like each other.
hawkeye
steve
This raises an interesting point. I've also used accessory viewfinders on SLRs and, as I wrote earleir, on my pocket digitals.
I started using viewfinders of course with my M Leicas but soon found that I prefered using a viewfinder to a viewing system.
For me the brightline accessories viewfinders provides a clear framed image of what I'm photographing. It allows a quicker response to the environment I am experiencing.
Although I use SLRs all the time I find the that in the moment of looking through the viewfinder at an out of focus image or an image surrounded by numbers I can lose the immediacy I am trying to capture. It really throws me off,
But even the focusing patch in the M viewfinder can be distracting, taking my attention away from the original image.
The accessory viewfinder gives me a frame and shows me a little space around the frame and nothing else.
Helps me stay in touch with the image.
Hawkeye
I started using viewfinders of course with my M Leicas but soon found that I prefered using a viewfinder to a viewing system.
For me the brightline accessories viewfinders provides a clear framed image of what I'm photographing. It allows a quicker response to the environment I am experiencing.
Although I use SLRs all the time I find the that in the moment of looking through the viewfinder at an out of focus image or an image surrounded by numbers I can lose the immediacy I am trying to capture. It really throws me off,
But even the focusing patch in the M viewfinder can be distracting, taking my attention away from the original image.
The accessory viewfinder gives me a frame and shows me a little space around the frame and nothing else.
Helps me stay in touch with the image.
Hawkeye
Al Kaplan
Veteran
The photo magazines often suggested carrying around a Leitz Imarect or one of the Canon or Nikon variable frame finders even when you weren't carrying a camera so you could look at a scene and see what might be a good picture. The rangefinder patch in an M doesn't distract me. I don't feel compelled to constantly fine tune the focus when I know that depth of field will more than cover me, but other photographers do. Between that and centering the meter needle (or nulling the red/green lights) it's a wonder that they ever get a chance to fiddle with the zoom control on an SLR before the subject is gone.
Movie directors carry a "directors viewfinder", essentally an Imarect type device, from a cord around their neck for choosing camera placement and angles. Carrying a 35mm Mitchell movie camera around the set isn't an option.
I think that most of us get to a point where we look at a scene and it's almost as if there were frame lines of various focal lengths already superimposed on the image in our brain. Before you lift the camera to your eye you know what your lenses will include whether it's a 21 or a 90. I do agree that out of focus areas in an SLR make it difficult to compose and know what they'd look like were they more in focus.
Movie directors carry a "directors viewfinder", essentally an Imarect type device, from a cord around their neck for choosing camera placement and angles. Carrying a 35mm Mitchell movie camera around the set isn't an option.
I think that most of us get to a point where we look at a scene and it's almost as if there were frame lines of various focal lengths already superimposed on the image in our brain. Before you lift the camera to your eye you know what your lenses will include whether it's a 21 or a 90. I do agree that out of focus areas in an SLR make it difficult to compose and know what they'd look like were they more in focus.
ferider
Veteran
IMO, it won't take long until somebody will integrate an optical viewfinder with digital framelines in a u4/3 camera. Until then I'll use film
hawkeye
steve
I bet that it won't be too long when someone takes up Andrewtees suggestion of moving the viewfinder over to the left side of the body like a Leica. Having done away with the mirror box it is now a small step to relocate the EVF.
An M mount Leica sized 10-12 MP camera body would be pretty damn close to heaven for me.
Hawkeye
An M mount Leica sized 10-12 MP camera body would be pretty damn close to heaven for me.
Hawkeye