Rangefinders,finding out what I missed out on with digital photography

[Chris101]

... it's easy to make copies to experiment with toning, all I need is a notebook to jot down the parameters. ...

Unless your print involves a lot of unusual gestures while dodging and/or burning. Mine usually do, so no two prints ever look exactly alike as my inkjet prints do.

... The darkroom makes me excited about making prints, the inkjet-way, so far, doesn't.

I gotta agree with that!

 

[remegius]

That might be the problem with your Epson. I use an Epson 7800, and have no complaints beyond the cost.

No question about it, the older generation of printers just weren't designed for pigment inks. But, as you point out, newer printers don't have that old clogged head problem, at least not in my experience. As far as the cost...I'm happy with the mileage I get out of these 27ml HP cartridges.

Cheers...

Rem

 

[shadowfox]

Ah...a veteran of Epson printers. I know whereof you speak. I used to print BW on an Epson 1280 with aftermarket (MIS) pigment inks. Forget it. When the machine worked the results were spectacular, but I finally couldn't deal with the clogged heads any longer. In all fairness to Epson, that printer wasn't really designed for pigment inks, but still...

Two years ago I got an HP B9180, which uses pigment inks, and after having made countless BW and color prints in that time I have never messed with the printer for maintenance reasons, except to change ink cartridges.

Cheers...

Rem

Rem,

As you say, when the MIS ink worked fine, it's absolutely terrific when reading a completely neutral patch (that is cyan value equals the magenta value equals the yellow value) through a densitometer (I have access to an X-rite 500 series at work). Good luck trying to do that with Epson inks.

The prints are quite good, and I wasn't even using a really high-end paper.

Say on your HP system, are you getting neutral-tone prints? what ink are you using? It's rather hard for me to believe if HP is able to do what Epson can't, that is being able to consistently produce a neutral print with stock ink.

 

[shadowfox]

That might be the problem with your Epson. I use an Epson 7800, and have no complaints beyond the cost.

😱 Chris, are you saying that you have a 7800 using MIS ink?

That would be awesome! I have access to two 7800 and one 7900 at work, but I can't do anything about changing their inks.

 

[remegius]

Say on your HP system, are you getting neutral-tone prints? what ink are you using? It's rather hard for me to believe if HP is able to do what Epson can't, that is being able to consistently produce a neutral print with stock ink.

To my eye (certainly not the best judging tool) I am getting neutral tone prints. You can only use HP's pigment inks with the B9180, and I have always chosen the "print in color" rather than the "composite" or "gray inks only" choices. I do this mostly because I do a lot toning when I print, but even when I'm doing a grayscale only print I choose that setting. The HP 8750 enthusiasts like to say that they get better grayscale because the 8750 has one more gray cartridge than the 9180, but I personally have never found that to be true. And besides, the 8750 does not use pigment inks. As I have said on other threads I have recently had a chance to see some inkjet prints (I'm not sure of the printer used) made with some of the newer baryta papers, and they a quite astounding. One thing is for sure, regardless of the printer used, it is absolutely crucial to use the "right" paper for the printing job at hand.

Cheers...

Rem