Rant: optical viewfinders & EVFs

[Godfrey]

You seem to be really down on anyone who complains about anything lately ... I gather it's getting to you!

I find the constant complaining about anything and everything to be immature and counterproductive. Even just having to skip over it consumes energy that would be better spent on doing something productive.

It's hard to engage in a proactive, positive discussion in the context of constant negativity and complaint. I'd rather see these forums move off the whingy wheel and start talking about all the great Summer photo projects and opportunities that are coming up (at least for the Northern Hemisphere folks). The Southerners can get equally enthused about their Winter Works in Progress.

New equipment is only a small part of Photography, or at least it should be. Learning how to get what you want from even the most flawed or limited equipment is a much more interesting topic to me.

G

 

[FA Limited]

this thread has the same usefulness as DPR comments on the XM-1 release saying the camera is fail without a finder
it's not like there aren't choices out there with integrated OVF and EVF options

 

[SausalitoDog]

Agreed. It was my first line decision in considering a digital camera to buy. Built-in viewfinder. All others weren't considered.

Plus plus ONE

Won't even look at a model without a real VF. Can be optical or EVF but has to fit against my fore head. That was my only reason to ditch my x1 for Fuji.

 

[willie_901]

I also agree. My first purchase filter is: does the camera have a finder I can raise to my eye?

This is not negotiable.

 

[kuzano]

Rant unwarranted....

Rant unwarranted....

The world has an extremely high inventory of very reasonably priced cameras with exceptional OPTICAL viewfinders. I have no problem finding full frame camera's with superb optical viewfinders, functional frame lines, 95 to over 100% coverage and in most cases NO LCD's. Simple well placed controls and more than adequate info in the viewfinder.

And the real bonus... They all still shoot film!!

What's to rant about.:bang:

 

[Lss]

Why do so many high-end cameras expect us to view via LCD, or charge $$$ for "accessory" optical or electronic finders?

Most of buyers (even of high-end cameras) are happy to use the camera cell phone style, which is why the manufacturers can easily get away with it. But it's just a trick to push the entry price down a little bit (significantly less than what the price of the accessory suggests) and to make the camera smaller on the spec sheet.

 

[dct]

The world has an extremely high inventory of very reasonably priced cameras with exceptional OPTICAL viewfinders. I have no problem finding full frame camera's with superb optical viewfinders, functional frame lines, 95 to over 100% coverage and in most cases NO LCD's. Simple well placed controls and more than adequate info in the viewfinder.

And the real bonus... They all still shoot film!!

What's to rant about.:bang:

The only VF less digital camera I accept are very pocketable ones, like my Canon S100.
For all the other serious 🙄 cameras I claim an integrated OVF experience over all models. Beeing film or digital: Why would I change my shooting style just on different recording media? 😕 This doesn't make sense.
That said I'm aware my digital camera choices (besides bigger DSLR) boil down to a very little variety. :bang:

 

[peterm1]

I have grown used to using the LCD to frame in some cameras.

But this more a matter of necessity rather than choice. I can live with it when using a legacy lens on a small camera with an adapter as it is moderately functional in that it is a "what you see is what you get" solution and there is no need to worry about backfocus and the like.

It is also an acceptable option when using a camera on a tripod (although this seldom happens when using a non SLR format camera) or shooting a video.

Having said this, as a general proposition, I would still prefer a built in EVF which offers the same advantages as an LCD without the disadvantage of having to hold the camera still in an inherently unstable position and having to peer into an LCD screen that is almost unviewable because of bright sunlight. Both issues with this type of camera especially when using legacy lenses that lack image stabilisation.

 

[clayne]

Look at the gorgeous 6x6 viewfinder of this TLR.. simply marvelous, baby!

Don't buy cheap electronic crap and you won't have this problem.

 

[Elektrojänis]

It's actually quite simple... A function of two things:

1. Large portion of general public doesn't understand.

2. Most of those who understand are still not smart enough to _vote_with_their_money_.

These affect much more than just camera viewfinders. Mostly it affects so that most of the things you can buy cannot be repaired and things are even designed so that they are even hard to clean. I don't even have to pick up any high tech toy to notice this. Last time I noticed this was yesterday when cleaning the oven in my kitchen!

 

[c.poulton]

I vehemently hate shooting with LCD viewfinders on small compact cameras (at least the fixed ones that I've tried) - shooting at arms length sucks IMHO!

However....

I absolutely love shooting with my TLR's as I can comfortably wear glasses and don't have to hold a camera to my face.

Nonsensical?

As I said above, waist-level is totally different. The camera is braced against your chest and your arms against your side.

Totally different than outstretched arms, steadied only by your shoulders.

No - completely different ways of holding and shooting.....

 

[mfunnell]

That said I'm aware my digital camera choices (besides bigger DSLR) boil down to a very little variety. :bang:

That's the "glass half empty" view of things. I prefer to note there is a much wider variety of such cameras now than existed only a couple or three years ago. I can hope that trend continues.

...Mike

 

[ferider]

A sign of the times.

LCD's reduce the real world to a reality show on a monitor / tv screen. In parallel, people spend more money on toys.

It's like replacing steering wheels of high end cars with joy sticks, because all you do with your Ferrari is sit in the car in your garage to play Grand Theft Auto.

Rant second'ed.

 

[Sid836]

There are two kinds of cameras, the high end ones, and the Pro/Semi Pro ones. As high end cameras weren't primarily aimed at Pros or serious amateurs it is pretty normal not to sport an optical viewfinder.
All Pro and Semi Pro camera's sport excellent optical viewfinders.

 

[dct]

[...]All Pro and Semi Pro camera's sport excellent optical viewfinders.

Thinking digital you are speaking of DSLR only, don't you?

 

[Sid836]

Thinking digital you are speaking of DSLR only, don't you?

Not only. Even compacts with a serious outlook sport a real viewfinder. If you refer to mirrorless, the main aim of mirrorless are not the pros, but the photographers that look more at the portability of their equipment.
Besides they are not some sort of evolution of the DSLRs (since a DSLR in liveview does exactly the same thing), but something like that, but just not that.

Of non DSLRs I love X-Pro 1 for that. It offers an excellent hybrid viewfinder along with the rest of its excellent pack.

What makes me hate those that just have that LCD at the back is the fact that it drains the battery quickly plus you cannot see a thing under sunlight.

 

[hepcat]

I agree with the OP completely... and I'll go one further and say I've never met an EVF that I liked... including Fuji's.

The public was educated on LCD-only P&S cameras. Look how many DSLRs are used that way by the amateur camera-buying public! Mirrorless cameras are touted by the manufacturers as the wave of the future because the cost to manufacture them is much less than a camera with moving parts. A Leica coincident rangefinder module itself costs as much to manufacture as the retail price of some of the mirrorless compact cameras out there.

EVFs exist only because there is that segment of the buying public who still wants to put the camera to their eye. The camera companies recognize that if they fill that need, they'll sell more cameras with EVFs.

I sold my Olympus gear after nearly 10 years with them because it appears that their next (and perhaps last) 4/3rds "pro" camera (and their "pro" cameras after the E1 were really "prosumer" cameras) will most likely be mirrorless with an EVF (yes, this is conjecture on my part.)

I sold my XPro-1 because it can't be focused manually without using the EVF and the CDAF system doesn't focus the way I work and think.

I paid the price of admission to buy into Leica digital because of the optical coincident range/viewfinder so I don't have to put up with the shortcomings of EVFs and finicky autofocus systems.

 

[Godfrey]

Not only. Even compacts with a serious outlook sport a real viewfinder...

I fit very nice Voigtländer optical viewfinders to my Ricoh GXR when I am using 21, 28 and 35mm lenses on the A12 Mount camera unit. Focus by scale and zone (or use the LCD when needed), do all my framing with the OVF.

It's kinda like using my Leica Barnacks in the past, only the LCD is a better focusing tool than their squinty little rangefinder—in bright light, zone focus is fine; in dim light, the LCD wins hands down.

Most of the digital cameras with optical viewfinders aside from the Leica Ms, with few exceptions, have mediocre optical viewfinders. The Fuji X OVs are pretty good, they're the major exception. I wish I could otherwise get along with the Fujis, but whenever I try one it disappoints me.

G

 

[sepiareverb]

A small optical VF solves this exceptionally difficult problem on my GR, and incredibly it is the same VF that I've used for four years or so on my GRD2. Not that I mind using the LCD, but sometimes the VF is better.

 

[Addy101]

I propose that all people who agree with the OP stay in this thread? I find it quite boring hearing (reading) about this rant. Also, it isn't true, even for mirrorless there are more then enough options:
Sony Nex 6 and 7
Olympus OM-D
Panasonic GH series
Fuji X-Pro1
I can understand you want an EVF (or OVF), my problem is that you can. Even cameras without can be fitted with an accessory EVF. So, stop ranting......

If you want a rant: why do I have to pay for the EVF of the Nex 6 while I don't need it :angel: