RD-1 IR test, because of all this M8 stuff...

JonasYip

JonasYip

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No, technically not an M8 post, but it's because of all this M8 talk that I decided to do a quick test of the RD-1 under similar circumstances (in my case various items of black clothing and lots of light).

If it makes anyone feel better, my RD-1 also turns some black things purplish. Actually, three of the four cameras I tested did: D1x, RD-1, Sony P&S.... only the D2x "passed". I wasn't surprised by the results since I knew the IR capabilities of the various cameras (it's even touted as a "feature" on the P&S). Of course, none of these cameras have generally produced problem pix under normal use for me, but then I don't shoot weddings, for example, where one might encounter just such a situation.

Since I don't have a Leica M8, I can't compare. I wish I did have one in hand of course! But w/o the benefit of a direct comparison I'm guessing that the M8 is doing this to a far greater degree and so it's more problematic? The examples I've seen seem pretty bad. Hopefully they'll work this out soon.

If you're interested, my quick-n-dirty test results are here:

http://www.underexposure.com/irtest

j
 
Yes, under the right conditions the R-D1 will produce purple blacks with a vengeance. I'd normally use a B+W 486 UV/IR cut filter where this is likely to happen. The lens was a Canon 50mm 0.95 at full aperture. Filters produce flare with this lens when wide open so one wasn't used.

The guitarist was dressed in black as was the backing singer. The purple drapes in the background were also black. You can see how different fabrics/dyes render when illuminated by tungsten light without an IR blocking filter.


Bob.
 

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Thanks Jonas,

This is really helpful to put this in perspective. I would suggest this is given as much prominence (by making sticky?) as all the negative comments!!
 
Keith Cocker said:
Thanks Jonas,

This is really helpful to put this in perspective. I would suggest this is given as much prominence (by making sticky?) as all the negative comments!!
Click to expand...

But this is also a negative comment??
 
Sparrow said:
But this is also a negative comment??
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Not really negative, just putting things in perspective by showing how some other cameras are affected by IR. That is, what's happening on the M8 isn't necessarily an entirely unique thing, except that perhaps it's doing it to an unacceptably high degree.

Of course, I don't have one to compare so I'm not defending the M8's, uh, "characteristics". But I know that with my cameras the IR sensitivity has not presented a problem under my normal shooting circumstances. Again, I guess it's a matter of degree.

Someone send me an M8 and I'll see how it does :)

j
 
JonasYip said:
Not really negative, just putting things in perspective by showing how some other cameras are affected by IR. That is, what's happening on the M8 isn't necessarily an entirely unique thing, except that perhaps it's doing it to an unacceptably high degree.

Of course, I don't have one to compare so I'm not defending the M8's, uh, "characteristics". But I know that with my cameras the IR sensitivity has not presented a problem under my normal shooting circumstances. Again, I guess it's a matter of degree.

Someone send me an M8 and I'll see how it does :)

j
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It seemed to me to be a way to highlight a negative in one camera in an attempt to mitigate that same fault in another, perhaps I misunderstood
 
My Canon 20D does not turn any kind of blacks any other color under any lighting conditions I've shot it under (which is a lot) and just using the auto-WB. My buddy's 5D doesn't either. I don't know about my son's D70 but I'll ask him.
 
Blacks are black with canon. It's almost impossible to make an IR exposure with any of the current canons. My old D1x made great IR exposures with the 87C filter.
 
Ben Z said:
My Canon 20D does not turn any kind of blacks any other color under any lighting conditions I've shot it under (which is a lot) and just using the auto-WB. My buddy's 5D doesn't either. I don't know about my son's D70 but I'll ask him.
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Likewise my Nikons. I use my D70s and D200, especially with flash and have taken a lot of shots. I've not seen this magenta cast or IR sensitivity in either camera.

But, as was said, the D1x did it. So it was something Nikon had an issue with and fixed apparently?
 
x-ray said:
Blacks are black with canon. It's almost impossible to make an IR exposure with any of the current canons. My old D1x made great IR exposures with the 87C filter.
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That reminds me! There's an article in Popphoto for Nov 06 about the latest iteration of the Fuji DSLR. The whole point of the article is that the Fuji because of a difference in the sensor DOES record IR. In fact it does it so well that Fuji is marketing it to forensic users.
 
AShearer said:
Likewise my Nikons. I use my D70s and D200, especially with flash and have taken a lot of shots. I've not seen this magenta cast or IR sensitivity in either camera.

But, as was said, the D1x did it. So it was something Nikon had an issue with and fixed apparently?
Click to expand...

I think the Nikons have gotten less IR sensitive with each generation. The D1 was even more IR "friendly" than the D1x (and, hey, oddly enough when it first came out the message boards were overflowing with magenta issues....).

The RD-1 has been my most IR sensitive camera so far... you can get handholdable shutter speeds with an IR filter on. But still the IR hasn't caused noticeable color problems in my normal picture taking circumstances.

I'm curious just what kind of IR response the M8 has for the examples we've seen to be as bad as they seem.

Maybe Leica should be marketing it to the forensic folks too :)

j
 
I have had shots taken with my 10D and 20D where the blacks had an annoying magenta tint to them; not as "purple" as shown with the M8 photos, but I remember being frustrated by this when I'd try to bring shadows up (i.e. "pushing"); on the 10D it'd be more green than magenta, actually.

You really have to look for it, and process to bring it up, and saw it more with my 50 f/1.4 (??) I don't have the 10D or 20D anymore.

On the 5D, I think I only see purple fringing on some very extreme cases, and I mean extreme.

I guess black objects are now to the M8 what focus charts were to the 10D ::shrugs::
 
I have 2 cameras that are supposed to be very infrared sensitive, the RD1 and the Canon 20Da (special astro model without IR filter). I also have a "hot mirror" filter by Heliopan that is suppose to be very effective IR filter. Tommorow, I will take some pictures of black velvet, etc and see what I get.

Rex
 
JonasYip said:
Here's a similar (but better executed) test which includes both an M8 and an RD-1, along with a D200 and D2h:

http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/MarkEDavison/M8infrared/
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The M8 seems to be about 2 f-stops more IR sensitive than the 2nd worst offender (RD-1) and 4 more than the D2h, the RD-1 as well is visibly affected by IR sensitivity without the hot mirror, however I suspect that under average shooting conditions the RD-1 would give reasonable results most of the times, while the colur cast on the M8 picture is much more obvious and seems to me to produce a totally unacceptable picture.
The shift caused by the D2h is probably not even worth mentioning and would cause no issues at all under normal shooting conditions.
 
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