sam_m
Well-known
if it were me, i'd probably wait and see what the next generation of drf's look like, whether it be an rd2, zeiss dikon, or m9, but that may be too long a wait for you. i'm always hesitant to buy into really new concepts (still using windows 2000), but thats just me.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
sam_m said:
Ah- but you are young - you can afford to lose all those photographic opportunities..
outfitter
Well-known
That is the problem I have with the M8 (aside from sad expeience with Leica electronics): you pay one heck of a premium for the Leica mechanical body parts but the electronics are really the 99% of the camera body and as many have observed the electronics will be pathetically oudated in five years. What's the point of having 5 year electronics in a 50 year body save for the Leica name up front? To me this is another Leica disjointed move that doesn't bode well for there ever being an M9. Even pros who work under tough conditions have been eschewing the expensive, heavy pro dslrs for the cheaper and lighter (and disposable) prosumer models.foto_fool said:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
outfitter said:
Sorry, you have lost me completely here. You are blaming Leica for exactly what?
They built a digital camera, that from the point of file quality,is as good as any Canon ot Nikon top model, put it in a body that is less obsolescence-prone that a gimmicky DSLR body and put it on the market at a price ranging from similar to 4000$ cheaper than cameras in the same class and now you are telling us that the problem is that the body is too good??
Compare the price difference between an M7 and M8 to that of a Canon 1V and a 1DSiii. You'lll find that the Leica body comes at rather a bargain.
If fact, imo this is the first Leica that does not come with a red-dot premium.
Quite apart from the fact that we need a spectacular breakthrough in sensor theory to get something that improves significantly on current sensors (that goes for all high-end digital cameras) we are rapidly approaching the level where technology can only improve beyond the point where it stops making sense in terms of end results, i.e. the photograph itself or the capability of optics. We are limited by the laws of optics, we are limited biologically.
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Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
shutterflower said:
Actually I think M8 files are better than R-D1 files. Not knocking the R-D1, it's a very fine camera, but M8 images are a definite cut above the Epson IMO. And yes "Images are nice from both" I completely agree.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Perhaps you could get hit by a stray meteor; you really never know. Walking around without a Titanium helmet is utterly risky. An underground bunker is only a step in the right direction. Even keeping Ilford Delta 3200 will seem unaffected by long-term exposure to cosmic rays.shutterflower said:
I think given all the options and Venus hasn't been transient in a handful of years, you should go with what your heart tells you, Ricardo.
nobbylon
Veteran
I have no experience of either RD-1 or M8. What i do know is that if you have an idea in your mind then you have to go with that.If you don't then from my own experience you will always hanker after what you truly wanted in the first place! Sounds to me like you would like an M8 in the long run but don't quite have enough for it. Hang on for a bit longer and instead of putting up with a compromise buy the thing that you convinced yourself you needed and wanted in the first place.You will be much happier. Believe me, you do actually save money in the long run! As a departed and remembered friend always used to say to me 'buy cheap, buy twice'
For me, I agree with some here that today's digital is tommorows news, I'm keeping my D70 for instant gratification and also my R's and M6 not only because I like the pictures they produce but the simple fact that I always liked them. If I had the disposable I would probably get an M8 and just keep upgrading as and when. However I don't so I wont compromise! Good luck deciding!
For me, I agree with some here that today's digital is tommorows news, I'm keeping my D70 for instant gratification and also my R's and M6 not only because I like the pictures they produce but the simple fact that I always liked them. If I had the disposable I would probably get an M8 and just keep upgrading as and when. However I don't so I wont compromise! Good luck deciding!
Olsen
Well-known
jaapv said:Sorry, you have lost me completely here. You are blaming Leica for exactly what?
They built a digital camera, that from the point of file quality,is as good as any Canon ot Nikon top model, put it in a body that is less obsolescence-prone that a gimmicky DSLR body and put it on the market at a price ranging from similar to 4000$ cheaper than cameras in the same class and now you are telling us that the problem is that the body is too good??
Compare the price difference between an M7 and M8 to that of a Canon 1V and a 1DSiii. You'lll find that the Leica body comes at rather a bargain.
If fact, imo this is the first Leica that does not come with a red-dot premium.
Quite apart from the fact that we need a spectacular breakthrough in sensor theory to get something that improves significantly on current sensors (that goes for all high-end digital cameras) we are rapidly approaching the level where technology can only improve beyond the point where it stops making sense in terms of end results, i.e. the photograph itself or the capability of optics. We are limited by the laws of optics, we are limited biologically.
Hear, hear! Well put!
jim_buchanan
Established
I hear the R-D1 vs M8 debate, and the Nikon D80 alternative to the first two.
I, too, have the first issue. A R-D1 with a problematic rangefinder that needs attention alot. It performs for me, even with just 6MPs. However, my alternative that I am considering is a Canon, not Nikon, with Leica R lenses. Is anyone thinking about this? The Leica R 28mm Elmarit is almost an identical lens to the Leica M 28mm Elmarit, pre-asph. Wider than 28mm does present financial challenges, I admit.
I think what I'm saying is that either R-D1 or M8 should have a dslr for complement.
I, too, have the first issue. A R-D1 with a problematic rangefinder that needs attention alot. It performs for me, even with just 6MPs. However, my alternative that I am considering is a Canon, not Nikon, with Leica R lenses. Is anyone thinking about this? The Leica R 28mm Elmarit is almost an identical lens to the Leica M 28mm Elmarit, pre-asph. Wider than 28mm does present financial challenges, I admit.
I think what I'm saying is that either R-D1 or M8 should have a dslr for complement.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Canon 5D & Leica Glass
Canon 5D & Leica Glass
I use a Canon 5D and 35/50/90/135 Leica R lenses (f:2 on the first two, f:2.8 on the second two), which can be had very reasonably these days. You loose smart-metering -- I tend to shoot in manual metering/stop down mode or wide open on aperture priority mode. I also have adapters for Nikon lenses and Pentax screw-mount lenses (maybe the best value in SLR glass available ever). The Canon 5D works for this because of its big, bright focusing screen. I tried a Digi-Rebel and just could not reliably focus on the miserly focusing screen; ditto Canon 20D. They really are NOT designed for manual focus work.
A note of caution: wides (my Nikon 20mm, my Pentax 24mm) won't work with the Canon 5D, due to the size and positioning of the 5D's mirror. Some adventurous souls have ground a new-moon sliver out of their mirrors to allow work with lenses that protrude too much into the 5D's body. This sort of surgery isn't for me. Due to the smaller mirror size on the Rebel and 20D/30D, I don't think it's as much of a problem, but you should check it out first. My Nikon 28/2.8 manual focus lens (AI-Nikkor) works just fine on the 5D . . . not sure that I can go wider though.
Canon 5D & Leica Glass
I use a Canon 5D and 35/50/90/135 Leica R lenses (f:2 on the first two, f:2.8 on the second two), which can be had very reasonably these days. You loose smart-metering -- I tend to shoot in manual metering/stop down mode or wide open on aperture priority mode. I also have adapters for Nikon lenses and Pentax screw-mount lenses (maybe the best value in SLR glass available ever). The Canon 5D works for this because of its big, bright focusing screen. I tried a Digi-Rebel and just could not reliably focus on the miserly focusing screen; ditto Canon 20D. They really are NOT designed for manual focus work.
A note of caution: wides (my Nikon 20mm, my Pentax 24mm) won't work with the Canon 5D, due to the size and positioning of the 5D's mirror. Some adventurous souls have ground a new-moon sliver out of their mirrors to allow work with lenses that protrude too much into the 5D's body. This sort of surgery isn't for me. Due to the smaller mirror size on the Rebel and 20D/30D, I don't think it's as much of a problem, but you should check it out first. My Nikon 28/2.8 manual focus lens (AI-Nikkor) works just fine on the 5D . . . not sure that I can go wider though.
Ben Z
Veteran
I agree about the Pentax screwmount lenses. It was my original SLR system and some of the best lenses ever and I'm happy they still have a use. They are easier than Nikon or Leica lenses to use on a Canon DSLR because the Pentaxes have stopdown buttons that wisk them to and from a preset aperture at the flick of a finger. Also it's only necessary to have one adaptor that can be left on the camera. One thing I found was that exposure metering is fine wide open and for 2-3 stops down (my usual range) but at small apertures like f/11-16 the metering is off almost a stop.
As to the viewfinder, I use a 20D and have no problem focusing. I have a viewfinder magnifier meant for the Olympus E300/E500 that fits the Canon eyepiece like a glove and magnifies the view about 20%. In side-by-side comparison with a 5D I can't see any difference worth noting. Cost was $50. I hear the one Nikon makes for the D200 ($25) works well also but doesn't fit quite as perfectly.
As to the viewfinder, I use a 20D and have no problem focusing. I have a viewfinder magnifier meant for the Olympus E300/E500 that fits the Canon eyepiece like a glove and magnifies the view about 20%. In side-by-side comparison with a 5D I can't see any difference worth noting. Cost was $50. I hear the one Nikon makes for the D200 ($25) works well also but doesn't fit quite as perfectly.