RD-1S : rumor from last PMA

pstevenin said:
The article is quite straightforward. No idea about interpolation and GUI sounds like a more natural workflow during shooting procedure? (never had a chance to try the RD-1...)

"Interpolation and GUI" -- "Interpolation" means they plan to upgrade the software that downsamples the image data when you choose the option to save low-res images. Not a biggie.

"GUI" means changes to the menu system. Also not a biggie.

As someone else said, normally you'd think these kinds of things could be implemented as a firmware update -- unless they require more firmware space than the original model has available. Even if a new static RAM chip were required, Epson could implement it as an installable upgrade (although I'm not sure most of us would consider it worth the bother.)

I suspect it's more likely that the idea behind these minor changes is to alter the camera JUST enough to justify giving it a new model designation, so they'll have an excuse to lower the list price. If they simply cut the list price drastically without changing anything on the camera, they'd risk eroding buyer confidence in it (which is exactly what happened to Bell & Howell with the Foton, for you old-timers.)

Of course, that's assuming this rumor is true! Seeing as how the PMA show happens in the US, and lots of US industry journalists attend, it would be odd if the ONLY publication to have gotten this tip was a relatively obscure French journal...
 
saxshooter said:
The last thing we want is for Epson to think that current owners of the RD-1 100% satisfied as to the current state of this great camera and have deep pockets to run out and buy this "updated camera".

On the other hand, we don't want to kvetch TOO much. Sometimes I wonder if all the extremely vocal griping from owners, negative reviews in PeeCee-oriented magazines that don't really "get" traditional photography, etc., might not sour Epson -- or anyone else -- from ever introducing another true RF digital camera!

If I were, say, Nikon or Canon, and thinking about getting into this market, I suspect my conclusion would be: "Forget it. The potential market is very small, it's never going to get any bigger, and the customers are a bunch of crybabies. There's no pleasing them no matter what you do. You give them the classic-camera styling and handling they say they want, then they gripe about having to wind the shutter manually. You partner with a respected producer of moderate-cost film RF cameras and they say your product feels flimsy. You price it no higher than a top-end film RF and they say that's too expensive.

"If we got into this field, all we'd get in return for our investment is a lot of well-publicized complaints that would lower our overall reputation as a maker of quality products. Who needs that?"
 
jlw said:
"Forget it. The potential market is very small, it's never going to get any bigger, and the customers are a bunch of crybabies. There's no pleasing them no matter what you do. You give them the classic-camera styling and handling they say they want, then they gripe about having to wind the shutter manually. You partner with a respected producer of moderate-cost film RF cameras and they say your product feels flimsy. You price it no higher than a top-end film RF and they say that's too expensive.

Absolutely!

Now if only they would put in AF, a decent mirror, VR, movies ...... 😀
 
jlw said:
On the other hand, we don't want to kvetch TOO much. Sometimes I wonder if all the extremely vocal griping from owners, negative reviews in PeeCee-oriented magazines that don't really "get" traditional photography, etc., might not sour Epson -- or anyone else -- from ever introducing another true RF digital camera!

I think Epson is already soured by this experience. I am only guessing that they have some commitment with Cosina and other manufacturers involved (Sony CCD, etc) to produce 10,000 units. So far they have moved around 5,000. So to move the remainder 5,000 they had the idea of addressing certain firmware and image processing issues (some of which may be a minor hardware change) and rebadging it and lowering the price some.

Epson in the past seemed to be aware of our discussions on this site, I remember that channels of communication seemed open with them when I joined this board last year. But nothing has come out of it. Heck, like I said. I haven't even gotten what was promised from Epson upon mailing in the registration card.

I'm not in the camp that is griping for unrealistic upgrades. I want simple firmware fixes.

Hot pixel mapping is a firmware fix. 2gb and bigger card compatibility may be a firmware fix.

Other issues will require more hardware retooling.
 
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If this reported information is actually true, then it may be safe to assume that Epson does indeed intend to sell all 10000 it committed to. The so-called upgrades mentioned are all pretty insignificant and I would be surprised if Epson would not offer some sort of downloadable firmware upgrade for current owners. But if they don't it makes no difference, honestly.
The only real upgrade worth mentioning would be the price reduction. It's about time and if this pans out Epson will be able to issue a press release about their "enhanced" digital rangefinder camera and new lower price. And they could do this with little to no further expense on a project that they clearly have decided on trying to recoup as much of their initial investment as they can.
I agree that if Epson succeeds in selling out the R-D1 that they MAY be more willing to provided adequate service options for the camera. But I STRONGLY feel that the complaints that have been made toward Epson have been largely well deserved. Their inability to deal with the most basic QC issues of this high end piece of digital equipment is inexcusable for ANY imaging company. I've read every message on this R-D1 forum and I do not recall any "cry babies" in the bunch. Sure, some will kvetch about this or that idiosyncracy of the R-D1. But for the most part this forum is a virtual lovefest and the only real complaining is about Epson the company and not this wonderful camera we are all grateful for.
-Carlos
 
From our point of view, yes.

What I meant by my "crybabies" remark is that that's how all this "tough love" from demanding consumers would likely be interpreted by other companies contemplating getting into this field.
 
ulrik said:
Most promising is the upgrade of the RAW converter. There is a R-D1s brochure available if you click HERE

As best I can gather from picking out numbers from the German text, controls and specs look the same except for:

"For the development of the RAW file the Epson PhotoRAW 1.2-Software furnishes a genuine digital darkroom, which [enables?] corner corrections and Schwarzweißabzüge
ermöglicht. [?] They provide even files with 13,54 megapixels for high-quality Vergrößerungen [enlargements?] up to 40 x 60 cm."

Which is interesting, but just means that the PhotoRAW 1.2 software provides an interpolated 2x output mode.

"Aufnahmeformat: JPEG, CCD-RAW, JPEG + CCD-RAW"

Which means they've added the capability of saving JPEG+RAW files -- not a huge feature, but a good thing for some people, although the fact that such files are larger would be a potential problem.

However, if to accommodate this they've also enlarged the frame buffer and added support for cards larger than 1gb, then that WOULD be a good thing all around -- possibly even worth a new model designation. BUT that's just me speculating -- I can't pick out anything in the German specs that would support this.

What would be even nicer, of course, would be if you could send your R-D 1 back to Epson for the circuit-board upgrade that would support these new hypothetical features...
 
I don't think they added a new frame buffer. I suspect they just stamped an "S" on the remaining 5000 pieces, upgraded the firmware/software and downgraded the price. Image of the back of the display looks like new items are added to the menu, but no modifications are made to the body or the dials. Dials show no indication of RAW+jpg, so it has to be set in the menu. Just speculating.
 
jlw said:
From our point of view, yes.

What I meant by my "crybabies" remark is that that's how all this "tough love" from demanding consumers would likely be interpreted by other companies contemplating getting into this field.
With all due respect, I doubt it. The "demands" have not been for anything that any other company normally provides for their current product line.
-Carlos
 
Ulrik and Four,
Thank you for the brochure links. Looks like this thing's for real. It is great news that Epson's R-D1 project is still alive!
-Carlos
 
Compared the two German brochures

Compared the two German brochures

found so far ...
new:
- file formats RAW, RAW + JPG, JPG
- "film"-presets (menu) plus brightness levels
- dead pixel correction
- replay zoom factor up to 16x (instead 9,4x as yet)
- software: Epson PhotoRAW 1.2, Photoshop Elements 3
Cheers
 
zetablues said:
found so far ...
new:
- file formats RAW, RAW + JPG, JPG
- "film"-presets (menu) plus brightness levels
- dead pixel correction
- replay zoom factor up to 16x (instead 9,4x as yet)
- software: Epson PhotoRAW 1.2, Photoshop Elements 3
Cheers

I'm curious to find out if they support the new Intel based Macs with the new software.
I'm also hoping that they decide to support the early adopters and release a free upgrade for the rest of us.

The RAW+JPEG isn't as compelling as I had originally thought. While it is nice, with a fast computer, you really don't need the JPEG anymore. I'm running an unoptimized beta version of Adobe Lightroom working with my ERF files and it is so fast I can't even tell that I'm working on a 10mb RAW file. I can't wait to see how fast the final version is.

-Paul
 
I'm looking at the German PDF and I see this:

Vergrößerungen bis zu 40x60 cm
entsprechend 13,54 Megapixel

Top right hand corner of page 3. 13.5 megapixel?

*That* is a reason to upgrade if it is indeed true.

Edit: Then again, it still says 6.1 megapixel on the last page... Oh well.
 
PaulN said:
I'm curious to find out if they support the new Intel based Macs with the new software.
I'm also hoping that they decide to support the early adopters and release a free upgrade for the rest of us.

The RAW+JPEG isn't as compelling as I had originally thought. While it is nice, with a fast computer, you really don't need the JPEG anymore. I'm running an unoptimized beta version of Adobe Lightroom working with my ERF files and it is so fast I can't even tell that I'm working on a 10mb RAW file. I can't wait to see how fast the final version is.

-Paul
Paul, they are planning this Intel thingy - > click
;-)
 
zetablues said:
Paul, they are planning this Intel thingy - > click
;-)


Interesting. The PDF manual that is at that link still mentions only a G3 or G4. No reference to G5s (which obviously work) or Intels (which currently does not work under rosetta).

Perhaps the manual went to the press before the software was complete. That doesn't surprise me.

It will be interesting to see how the LeicaMD will compare in price. If it comes out at $5k, and the R-D1s is at $2k, Espon will most likely have an even bigger hit. If only Epson dropped in a 13.5 megapixel CCD at that price point 🙂

-Paul
 
jlw said:
"For the development of the RAW file the Epson PhotoRAW 1.2-Software furnishes a genuine digital darkroom, which [enables?] corner corrections and Schwarzweißabzüge
ermöglicht. [?] They provide even files with 13,54 megapixels for high-quality Vergrößerungen [enlargements?] up to 40 x 60 cm."

jlw, nearly perfect translation 😉

For the development of the RAW file the Epson PhotoRAW 1.2-Software furnishes a genuine digital darkroom, which enables corner corrections and b/w prints. They provide even files with 13,54 megapixels for high-quality enlargements up to 40 x 60 cm.

regards
 
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