RD-1S : rumor from last PMA

I have to agree with JLW on the "crybaby" stance. Even I, who has no real interest in how Epson regards our comments, am getting more and more annoyed by all the whining. We all know there are some QC problems, most of which are dealt with by replacing the camera. Other issues, like the rf getting out of whack, are things that we can either easily fix ourselves or things we simply will have to live with (like any other camera has its quirks and oddities).

Enjoy the bl**dy camera, go out and shoot it, and stop whing about what utlimately boils down to minor details. If you really have severe problems with your camera, send it to Epson and have them deal with it. All other issues are really not worth all this bandwidth.

I've had my R-D1 since June 2005 and haven't been happier. There have been only a handful of occassions when I cursed the camera: mainly losing a shot because of having to press the shutter button twice before I can shoot when the post-view image is visible. I've learned to live with that. I'm using the camera, having shot some 3000 photos (rough estimate) with it sofar. It hasn't let me down, it's been exactly what I had in mind, and it released me from film (mostly the scanning and the cost). The 2500 euro it cost me was worth every penny. Yes, it was a large expense, and one that I found difficult to justify at first but now that I've bought and used it for 9 months I'd buy that R-D1S in a second if I have the money.

Epson is to be commended for its bravery and guts to take on the challenge of producing a digital RF, and should be commended for the way they did it. They came up with a camera that is as much a rf camera as any other film-based rf camera. They did NOT fall into the trap of adding gadget on top of gadget just to be able to justify the price. If dSLRs had been made in such a spartan fashion I'd probably be much happier with my Eos 300D. Instead, Epson gave me what I had been craving for years already, and they did it in perfect fashion. Epson did indeed faulter a little when it came to addressing QC issues but if I read the news well then QC issues are hardly a big problem anymore in the latest batches. It is something that Joseph Yao already told me last year; that from about number 4000 the known QC issues had mostly been dealt with.
 
PaulN said:
Interesting. The PDF manual that is at that link still mentions only a G3 or G4. No reference to G5s (which obviously work) or Intels (which currently does not work under rosetta).
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but the headline of this empty download directory points towards Intel
(will have to remove the Intel code of the future fat binary software, don't need this on my new iMac G5 ;) )
 
RML said:
I have to agree with JLW on the "crybaby" stance. Even I, who has no real interest in how Epson regards our comments, am getting more and more annoyed by all the whining. We all know there are some QC problems, most of which are dealt with by replacing the camera. Other issues, like the rf getting out of whack, are things that we can either easily fix ourselves or things we simply will have to live with (like any other camera has its quirks and oddities).

Enjoy the bl**dy camera, go out and shoot it, and stop whing about what utlimately boils down to minor details. If you really have severe problems with your camera, send it to Epson and have them deal with it. All other issues are really not worth all this bandwidth.

I've had my R-D1 since June 2005 and haven't been happier. There have been only a handful of occassions when I cursed the camera: mainly losing a shot because of having to press the shutter button twice before I can shoot when the post-view image is visible. I've learned to live with that. I'm using the camera, having shot some 3000 photos (rough estimate) with it sofar. It hasn't let me down, it's been exactly what I had in mind, and it released me from film (mostly the scanning and the cost). The 2500 euro it cost me was worth every penny. Yes, it was a large expense, and one that I found difficult to justify at first but now that I've bought and used it for 9 months I'd buy that R-D1S in a second if I have the money.

Epson is to be commended for its bravery and guts to take on the challenge of producing a digital RF, and should be commended for the way they did it. They came up with a camera that is as much a rf camera as any other film-based rf camera. They did NOT fall into the trap of adding gadget on top of gadget just to be able to justify the price. If dSLRs had been made in such a spartan fashion I'd probably be much happier with my Eos 300D. Instead, Epson gave me what I had been craving for years already, and they did it in perfect fashion. Epson did indeed faulter a little when it came to addressing QC issues but if I read the news well then QC issues are hardly a big problem anymore in the latest batches. It is something that Joseph Yao already told me last year; that from about number 4000 the known QC issues had mostly been dealt with.
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I am NOT whining, only interested noticing the minor improvements and further enjoying my R-D1 (without "S").
Cheers
:D
 
zetablues said:
I am NOT whining, only interested noticing the minor improvements and further enjoying my R-D1 (without "S").
Cheers
:D
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Good for you, Lutz! Keep enjoying that camera.

And yes, the improvements seem minor only. As it is, only the price improvement is really exciting me.
 
RML said:
Good for you, Lutz! Keep enjoying that camera.

And yes, the improvements seem minor only. As it is, only the price improvement is really exciting me.
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Yes, the altered price is the true improvement to sell the remaining 5000 cams to the laggards. But I'm genuine interested in the new software update (hopefully not so ugly like the recent, with more mac like gui and technical improvements). :)
 
RML said:
Good for you, Lutz! Keep enjoying that camera.

And yes, the improvements seem minor only. As it is, only the price improvement is really exciting me.
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The most exciting thing in my mind is that they are continuing to make revisions to the camera. It is exciting that a revised version will be out before the Leica MD, and similar to the low cost Bessa's out there, it will be much much cheaper than the Leica. If the QC problems have been worked out once and for all, I think that this will put an end to all of the negative reviews of this product. It will definitely make it a viable product for those who want a digital M, but don't want to shell out twice as much.

It will be interesting to read about Photokina this year. I wonder if we'll be seeing articles slamming the MD in favor of the R-D1s.
 
It will be interesting to read about Photokina this year. I wonder if we'll be seeing articles slamming the MD in favor of the R-D1s.
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It'll be a Leica so it won't have any QC problems, right? :p

A 2000 euro R-D1(s) with little or no QC problems will be much more interesting for me than any digital M at double or triple that price level. Not even a FF sensor would be able to empty my wallet for such a Leica. But no doubt Leica will be able to sell a few by the name alone.
 
Epson RD1s brochures

Epson RD1s brochures

Got this from the LUG. There is a german version as well, and possibly an english edit.
 
Thanks for the French pdf.
The jpeg-raw combo is a nice feature.

I'm not grumbling either. Digital cameras borrow a lot from the computer world -- that is that it is a given that you can expect better features for less money as time goes on. How much did I pay for that Kaypro. Around the same as my G4 powerbook.

I think this is really good news for existing R-D1 owners. It should mean continuing and increased support for the Epson raw format by third party developers. And a less expensive camera gives me some hope that I can one day afford a second body.
 
sevres_babylone said:
Digital cameras borrow a lot from the computer world -- that is that it is a given that you can expect better features for less money as time goes on. ... I think this is really good news for existing R-D1 owners. It should mean continuing and increased support for the Epson raw format by third party developers.
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Fully agree!
 
sevres_babylone said:
Thanks for the French pdf.
The jpeg-raw combo is a nice feature.
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It is, but one of the occasionally irritating things about using an R-D 1 is that its frame buffer is like a 90-year-old guy's bladder: It seems like it fills up all too quickly, and then takes a long time to empty. (You older guys know what I'm talking about.)

When shooting in raw mode, I usually find that two shots in quick succession are all I can do before I have to pause and wait for the buffer to flush. The need to stroke the thumb lever between shots does help pace this, but in fast-shooting situations I still encounter a significant number of these buffer "traffic jams."

With the extra data included in a raw+JPEG file, I'd guess that the R-D1's buffer is only going to be able to hold about ONE of these files between buffer flushes. Oh, well, it'll be nice to have the capability, and you can always turn it off when it gets in the way -- but unless Epson has managed to increase either the buffer's size or its flush speed (possibly the latter could be implemented in firmware) it's going to be of limited utility -- meaning I wouldn't trade my R-D 1 in on an R-D 1s just to get that one feature.
 
Interesting. For film RF cameras, the price of the Zeiss Ikon is about 40% of the Leica M7. The Leica digital M is expected to be priced at $5K, 40% of which would be $2K.

The Zeiss Ikon has seen success at that price (according on Zeiss PR) in relation to the M7. Epson appears to want to stake out that ground in the digital market. This is good news. When, invariably, the digital Zeiss Ikon enters the market, digital rangefinder photographers will have choices based on competition.

The thought of having an affordable digital body to compliment my film M2 body is very exciting.

Robert
 
nksyoon said:
What do people think the street price of the "S" versus the current model is likely to be given that SH Photo already sells the R-D1 at €1896 excl. sales tax?

http://shphoto.de/cgi-bin/shphotoe.pl?f=NR&c=05938&t=temartic
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Are you sure that is a new-in-the-box version? I heard of a couple of places selling refurb models. I know that it was lucky camera #3 that was a winner for me. I'm not sure what Epson did with the first two, but I know they weren't fixing them. Otherwise they would have fixed mine.

I think they ended up going back to the Cosina factory and got tuned up and repackaged and sold as a refurb w/heavy discount.

-Paul
 
The R-D1S looks like a mere R-D1 with firmware and software updates at first glance.
Probably unsold and refurb R-D1 bodies with new hotshoes to update the serial numbers i guess.
Now who cares if the price is fair?
I've heard of EUR 2,000 in Europe and USD 2,000 in the USA but it was just a rumour.
Would be fair with a 2 years warranty if RF alignments have been seriously controlled IMHO.
Best,
LCT
 
Gid said:
I've had my RD-1 for just about a year now. I bought in full knowledge of all its shortcomings, QC problems, lack of support. I bought it because it was and still is unique. It's a niche product so it was always going to cost more than mass produced stuff.

There is nothing wrong with my RD-1 except for the occasional vertical alignment issue which I have fixed myself easily. This camera has allowed me to change the way I approach photography and has even been responsible, in part, for pushing me back into film.

I've thoroughly enjoyed my time with the RD-1. I consider myself very lucky to have been able to be part of a small band of users.

Every camera gets some kind of upgrade sooner or later if there's market for it. Sometimes previous model users get the benefit of upgrades for free, but often not. It would be nice to get a firmware upgrade if it makes a huge difference, but there really isn't anything aside from QC that I am concerned about.

As far as a price drop is concerned, that is the way of the world. If you were a digital pioneer paying $20,000 for a low res machine that wasn't any better than the average P&S of today you could be pretty mad, but what is the point? We know the way the market works. I'll be glad if they do reduce the price. It might just encourage more users and that might persuade Epson that its worth setting up a support network or even to introduce a larger higher res chip in an RD-2 :)

Chill out and be grateful we've been lucky enough to have had the opportunity of a unique experience ;)

Regards

Gid
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Here here, well said.
 
If price drops to around 2000$ I will get my 2nd body right away, even without an upgrade. I am waiting for the Leica MD, but I was waiting for the M7, and it took them a while. I want to use my new 12mm with a cron 28, sux asph 35, or the 50 cron without changing lenses, I also would love to use for night shootings the 35 lux asph along with the 75 lux. that would be great. I never used a single body with my Leica M.
btw, I am not unhappy they don't change the chip. Maybe its old, maybe its "only" 6mp (when I need big prints I use the Kodak slr/c 14mp. However, I generally don't). I am VERY happy they didn't put a CMOS rather than the current CCD. I am glad my Epson doesn't bring the look you get from recent Canon cameras. There is something about the Sony chip which is really "right". Many people prefer the Nikon D70 "look" to that of the new D200, the D70 has the same sensor as the Epson, the D200 has a new CMOS sensor. I am not claiming any objectivity, I know how many people love the canon, I don't (I have a "full case" of L lenses).
so I am very happy about the news, if true.
 
ulrik said:
I don't think they added a new frame buffer. I suspect they just stamped an "S" on the remaining 5000 pieces, upgraded the firmware/software and downgraded the price.
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OK, who will be the first to complain that their stamped "S" is slightly off vertical/horizontal alignment, and will Epson switch out for a new camera? :D

Seems that Epson has now achieved the same exclusive status as Leica, of recent. If they make it, loveable quirks and all, we will buy! And if you lower the price, we'll buy more! But I guess Leica never lowered prices. :angel:

I tend to disagree with Epson if they think believe they need to sell 10,000 units before they support the camera.

Regards, Charlie
 
RML said:
If dSLRs had been made in such a spartan fashion I'd probably be much happier with my Eos 300D. Instead, Epson gave me what I had been craving for years already, and they did it in perfect fashion..
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I know that feeling. Looking at the shutter dial and finding about half a dozen "creative" controls makes me wonder how much in costs or what sort of extra functions could have been accomodated if these redundant functions were eliminated. What would be wrong with an entry level DSLR like the Canon 300D to have M/AV/TV controls alone? There would have been less buttons to fumble with...

Canon apparently included some 'retro' touches to the 300D's successor. The shutter dial feels (it's knurled like the Zenit 12XP shutter dials) and clicks sharply (instead of feeling blunt contacts) in place like the old shutter dials. But the not so desireable 'creatives' are still there.

Speaking of these cameras, their shutters are rated only for 50.000 exposures. I
ve already managed to 'wear' the shutter of my 300D about 6 months after getting it- it now has a replacement shutter. I've been using the 300D for professional use (yes it can deliver pro results) and 500-600 shots per commission is quite common.

How are the Epson RD-1 shutters rated? Are they the similar? Canon use vertical running shutter similar to the Compur Square.

Jay
 
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