zwarte_kat
Well-known
As a lot of people, I am looking for a digital alternative to shooting on film with my m-lenses. I tried out various systems, and my main options seem to be the GXR M mount, M8, M9, and Sony Nex 7.
But when I look at RD1 flickr images they often just look amazing. Do you think the camera has an unique look to it? Or is it just that a lot of people who own it are very good traditional photographers? I think for example, that this is partly true with the GRD (I, II, and III). A lot of people owning those are pro's that use them as their daily point and shoot here in Japan, and they deliver great shots. I have it myself and my pics suck...
(haha just kidding I love this cam and it's pics).
Though the RD1 only has 6 MP, this pics certainly look big enough for any use on a screen, and I don't really print anyway. I always have my Mamiya 6 for that. 6MP is still 3008 pix wide, compared to the 4288 of the GXR M, it doesn't seem like THAT huge of a difference.
Iso seems usable up to 1600, which is kind of the same as when I use Fuji 1600 and scan.
I worry though about usability. How fast do files get saved after shooting, how fast can I see a preview? I imagine it wouldn't be too different from using film.
The cropfactor is an issue, but compared to m8 and m9, I could afford one nice 28mm lens, and it will "update" all my focal lenghts, since I have 40mm, 50mm, 75mm, and 90mm now.
Over the whole I see this camera as a direct digital conversion from my Bessa R3A. Getting my images faster, without having too scan.
That but nothing more.
Could you give me some thoughts on this. It is still pricey, in the range of the GXR plus Mount, X100, and even approaching the Nex 7.
In the end I think this will be a temporarily camera for me, allowing me to shoot digital while I wait for affordable full frame options.
But when I look at RD1 flickr images they often just look amazing. Do you think the camera has an unique look to it? Or is it just that a lot of people who own it are very good traditional photographers? I think for example, that this is partly true with the GRD (I, II, and III). A lot of people owning those are pro's that use them as their daily point and shoot here in Japan, and they deliver great shots. I have it myself and my pics suck...
(haha just kidding I love this cam and it's pics).
Though the RD1 only has 6 MP, this pics certainly look big enough for any use on a screen, and I don't really print anyway. I always have my Mamiya 6 for that. 6MP is still 3008 pix wide, compared to the 4288 of the GXR M, it doesn't seem like THAT huge of a difference.
Iso seems usable up to 1600, which is kind of the same as when I use Fuji 1600 and scan.
I worry though about usability. How fast do files get saved after shooting, how fast can I see a preview? I imagine it wouldn't be too different from using film.
The cropfactor is an issue, but compared to m8 and m9, I could afford one nice 28mm lens, and it will "update" all my focal lenghts, since I have 40mm, 50mm, 75mm, and 90mm now.
Over the whole I see this camera as a direct digital conversion from my Bessa R3A. Getting my images faster, without having too scan.
That but nothing more.
Could you give me some thoughts on this. It is still pricey, in the range of the GXR plus Mount, X100, and even approaching the Nex 7.
In the end I think this will be a temporarily camera for me, allowing me to shoot digital while I wait for affordable full frame options.
JayM
Well-known
RD1 is excellent. I'd say it's usable to at least 1600. I've happily pushed it many stops beyond that. Like everyone says, it looks good at high ISO and even pushed to me it doesn't look to take on a very digital looking noise.
8 x 12 prints from it look good. Never cared about slow write speed. I just take pictures and look at them at home. If you like to take pictures and immediately look at them on the LCD screen then the RD1 will probably annoy you since it is slow. Ergonomics etc make it a general joy to use.
I really think an ideal RD1 setup is 15/35/50. Personally I wouldn't bother with a 28 when there's the CV 35 f/1.4 and a whole slew of great 50mm f/1.4 lenses. Though if you like that 40mm lens you have and can deal with it being f/2 at the fastest it could be worthwhile.
I could also see 21/35/50 but for me I like the equivalent 21mm FOV you get with a 15 more than the equivalent 28ish you'd get with a 21.
I would still gladly use mine if there was a small, fast lens you could use on crop cameras that approximates a 35mm fov. Sadly, there is not.
YMMV
8 x 12 prints from it look good. Never cared about slow write speed. I just take pictures and look at them at home. If you like to take pictures and immediately look at them on the LCD screen then the RD1 will probably annoy you since it is slow. Ergonomics etc make it a general joy to use.
I really think an ideal RD1 setup is 15/35/50. Personally I wouldn't bother with a 28 when there's the CV 35 f/1.4 and a whole slew of great 50mm f/1.4 lenses. Though if you like that 40mm lens you have and can deal with it being f/2 at the fastest it could be worthwhile.
I could also see 21/35/50 but for me I like the equivalent 21mm FOV you get with a 15 more than the equivalent 28ish you'd get with a 21.
I would still gladly use mine if there was a small, fast lens you could use on crop cameras that approximates a 35mm fov. Sadly, there is not.
YMMV
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
RD-1 is a very nice camera. However be aware that when using wideangles as from 25mm or more, the vignetting becomes quite apparent (although it is a 1,5 crop camera) and is hard to correct in software. Further the shutter makes quite some noice compared to the other cameras
Sam N
Well-known
Vignetting was pretty bad with the CV 15, but not bad enough to keep me from using that lens a lot with the R-D1. It's a really unique camera with a very interesting analog UI.
Usability overall is great, but it is not a camera that encourages chimping. The screen is garbage by today's standards, but I never had a problem judging exposure (there is a histogram iirc) or focus (you can zoom in but it takes a little while). Write times were not objectionable at all.
I converted all my RAW files to DNGs (with 6mp previews embedded) since the jpeg previews in the Epson raw files are so tiny as to be useless. DNGs also use a lossless compression that gets the files down from 10mb per shot to around 6mb per shot.
I also had an R3a and I'd say your characterization of it as a digital R3a is pretty accurate, though it is somewhat more chunky than a Bessa.
I miss that camera. Try one. There won't be an affordable 24x36 full frame m-mount option anytime soon.
Usability overall is great, but it is not a camera that encourages chimping. The screen is garbage by today's standards, but I never had a problem judging exposure (there is a histogram iirc) or focus (you can zoom in but it takes a little while). Write times were not objectionable at all.
I converted all my RAW files to DNGs (with 6mp previews embedded) since the jpeg previews in the Epson raw files are so tiny as to be useless. DNGs also use a lossless compression that gets the files down from 10mb per shot to around 6mb per shot.
I also had an R3a and I'd say your characterization of it as a digital R3a is pretty accurate, though it is somewhat more chunky than a Bessa.
I miss that camera. Try one. There won't be an affordable 24x36 full frame m-mount option anytime soon.
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
If you are not going to print your digital images, I'd say you could get by with any camera. On the screen everything looks 'good' to me. That said, the RD-1 is a joy to use if you want a digital RF and can't afford the M8 or M9. It has the same sensor as the old EOS D60, which I had and sold to finance the RD-1. But the people who wrote the firmware and the RAW converter sure did an excellent job at getting every detail out of it. It has a particularly nice colour rendition, and in B&W it's definitely usable at 1600 - with grain that looks much like what you get from film.
The screen is small and only good for checking basic exposures and histograms. What I really like about it, though, is that if the LCD should fail, the camera is still fully usable, because the important controls are manual.
The writing times for RAW files is not too bad. Not something I notice when shooting. Definitely less than the six seconds per shot my Ricoh GX100 needed.
My biggest worry is that it's a costly old camera - ancient by digital standards - and that repairs will be expensive and/or difficult.
Enough talk... how does it shoot?
Here it is at ISO 200 with the Nippon Kugaku 35/3.5:
The screen is small and only good for checking basic exposures and histograms. What I really like about it, though, is that if the LCD should fail, the camera is still fully usable, because the important controls are manual.
The writing times for RAW files is not too bad. Not something I notice when shooting. Definitely less than the six seconds per shot my Ricoh GX100 needed.
My biggest worry is that it's a costly old camera - ancient by digital standards - and that repairs will be expensive and/or difficult.
Enough talk... how does it shoot?
Here it is at ISO 200 with the Nippon Kugaku 35/3.5:
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djonesii
Well-known
So far even at 6mp I cant bear to sell mine
So far even at 6mp I cant bear to sell mine
There is just something about the images from this camera!
I have it and two CV lenses, the 25 F4 and the 40 1.4 SC, and it makes a great kit.
As many photos as I have taken of my wife, and that's a lot, and 8X10 from the Epson hangs on my wall, not one of the studio portraits from the Phase One P30+ .... Which are much better technically, but just miss something ...
can't swear, but I have locked in my mind, it was the same sensor as the Nikon D50 ..... but I can't be bothered to google it!
Dave
So far even at 6mp I cant bear to sell mine
There is just something about the images from this camera!
I have it and two CV lenses, the 25 F4 and the 40 1.4 SC, and it makes a great kit.
As many photos as I have taken of my wife, and that's a lot, and 8X10 from the Epson hangs on my wall, not one of the studio portraits from the Phase One P30+ .... Which are much better technically, but just miss something ...
can't swear, but I have locked in my mind, it was the same sensor as the Nikon D50 ..... but I can't be bothered to google it!
Dave
yossarian123
Sam I Am
I'm curious - how does one get their Epson repaired? Does Epson still provide service? And what about just general CLAs?
pb908
Well-known
Worth for every cent i spent on it. Worthier than the new x100 imo, and for some people, worthier than even an m8. You get TRUE RF camera, TRUE RF handling, and good to great IQ
i use 21/35/50, works fine so far, but if i can get fast 28 than maybe it will be 28/50 combo. Some people thing 28/50 work better than 21/35/50, cheaper (assume all are VC), and match the RF frameline. Just my opinion.
i use 21/35/50, works fine so far, but if i can get fast 28 than maybe it will be 28/50 combo. Some people thing 28/50 work better than 21/35/50, cheaper (assume all are VC), and match the RF frameline. Just my opinion.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Actually the 1.5 crop was mainly why I changed to the M8.2. If you use a 35mm lens it works as a 52mm lens. So you have to go really low for getting a real wideangle. Therefore I also used 15mm VC that provides 23mm in practice. But I found the vignetting really a pain: by getting rid off it you will start to crop your pictures again in software, thereby not leaving much of the original wideagle picture. However if you only shoot in b&w this may not be to much of a problem: below one shot with the CV 15 on the RD1-s:
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gilpen123
Gil
Everytime I look at what I took with the RD1 makes me think I want one again. Anyone has the RD1xg PM me.
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
The actual question in my mind is whether the M8 is still relevant!
I have an R-D1, purchased here a few weeks ago. I got it as an interim until the A12M comes out for my GXR. I thought I'd sell it in the next few weeks, but I have taken a wicked liking to it.
The camera feels great, the controls are very intuitive (the only thing I haven't taken a shining to is that old fashioned pull-and-turn ISO setting...I got used to setting that on screen, and I also got used to a customizable auto-ISO). The files are great. A few years ago I had a show of 13x19 prints, most taken with an Olympus E-1 (5m-) and D70 (6.1mp) and done on an Epson R1800 printer...they were fine. I've also had photos from both of those cameras published. So yeah, the great megapixel myth is partially myth. Some magazines want bigger files, but what are we talking about? You don't print.
Any camera would do, but the R-D1 offers a very enjoyable rangefinder experience for half the price of a M8 and about the same price as a Ricoh GXR and A12M. The latter will have better image quality at high ISOs. It might be harder to work with.
The R-D1 is just, as the Slovaks say, skvely, which is something like splendid. Once the A12M is in hand I will have a hard decision to make: sell one or keep both and offer up a kidney on craigslist.
I think the R-D1 is pretty popular in Japan and while it won't be as easily repairable long-term, I think there will likely be a way. The service mentioned above, while a little extra hassle, has a good reputation and is not really that much more expensive than any US-based repair of digital cameras.
I have an R-D1, purchased here a few weeks ago. I got it as an interim until the A12M comes out for my GXR. I thought I'd sell it in the next few weeks, but I have taken a wicked liking to it.
The camera feels great, the controls are very intuitive (the only thing I haven't taken a shining to is that old fashioned pull-and-turn ISO setting...I got used to setting that on screen, and I also got used to a customizable auto-ISO). The files are great. A few years ago I had a show of 13x19 prints, most taken with an Olympus E-1 (5m-) and D70 (6.1mp) and done on an Epson R1800 printer...they were fine. I've also had photos from both of those cameras published. So yeah, the great megapixel myth is partially myth. Some magazines want bigger files, but what are we talking about? You don't print.
Any camera would do, but the R-D1 offers a very enjoyable rangefinder experience for half the price of a M8 and about the same price as a Ricoh GXR and A12M. The latter will have better image quality at high ISOs. It might be harder to work with.
The R-D1 is just, as the Slovaks say, skvely, which is something like splendid. Once the A12M is in hand I will have a hard decision to make: sell one or keep both and offer up a kidney on craigslist.
I think the R-D1 is pretty popular in Japan and while it won't be as easily repairable long-term, I think there will likely be a way. The service mentioned above, while a little extra hassle, has a good reputation and is not really that much more expensive than any US-based repair of digital cameras.
Ronchnam
Established
RD1 still relevant for the price?
Three days ago I put my "beloved" R-D1 for sale on a French RF site (summilux.net) as I figured out buying a Leica M8.
2 hours later I cancelled the ad as I was convinced that it was a mistake.
No regrets
Three days ago I put my "beloved" R-D1 for sale on a French RF site (summilux.net) as I figured out buying a Leica M8.
2 hours later I cancelled the ad as I was convinced that it was a mistake.
No regrets
newghost
Member
I sold my RD1s earlier and regretted... bought back the RD1xG from Fujiya 3 months ago. Love lost and found... though the 1.5x crop can be annoying at times!
jl-lb.ms
John A. Lever
Somewhat too soon to tell, but the Ricoh A12 M mount module may be a far more pragmatic choice than the R-D1, the M8, or the M9. It's a totally different animal, but clearly the most competent of the lower cost solutions for M-mount lenses.
mwooten
light user
Sean Reid did tests with ultra-wides on the Epson, and the cv15mm really vignetted. However, the cv12 was nowhere as bad. I used to have a 12mm for my Rd1 and was never bothered by the vignette. A 40mm makes, for me, a good walk-around lens.
As for selling mine, I truly doubt I ever will. It is just too much fun to use, and I can not replace the value I have assigned to the camera with anything on the market now.
As for selling mine, I truly doubt I ever will. It is just too much fun to use, and I can not replace the value I have assigned to the camera with anything on the market now.
back alley
IMAGES
i had 2 but only have 1 now...but it is here for the long haul. great pics, colours, low light shooter. the crop doesn't bother me...i like the 40 sonnar on it as my main lens, use a 50 for a bit of a reach and love the 15 on it...makes for a really nice point and shoot.
good combo with the x100.
good combo with the x100.
kermaier
Well-known
I love mine, and I'm keeping it even though I have an X100 now as well.
The 1.0x viewfinder magnification is awesome.
ISO 1600 converted to black and white looks just like pushed Tri-X to my eye -- very cool.
Vignetting with wides is only really an issue with lenses that have a deeply protruding rear element. The compact CV lenses fall into this category (like the 28/3.5), but I think the larger ones like the 28/1.9 are fine in this regard.
I use a 28mm a lot on the R-D1: Currently favoring a 28/2.8 Elmarit-M Asph, but I've used the CV 28/3.5 with good results (despite some corner light fall-off), as well as Canon 28/2.8 and 28/3.5 lenses. (The Minolta M-Rokkor 28/2.8 is fantastic on the R-D1, but hard to find one without haze/coating issues.)
I also love the Canon 25/3.5 on this camera, which give about a 37mm FOV, which corresponds roughly to the entire viewfinder area (outside the 28mm frame lines).
My M-Rokkor 40/2 is great, and almost perfectly matches the 35mm frame lines, given that they're about 15% smaller than a real 35mm lens's FOV.
It's still $1000 cheaper than an M8 and, IMO, the m4/3 and other mirorless camera options don't really cut it for a real RF/VF camera shooting experience.
Cheers,
Ari
The 1.0x viewfinder magnification is awesome.
ISO 1600 converted to black and white looks just like pushed Tri-X to my eye -- very cool.
Vignetting with wides is only really an issue with lenses that have a deeply protruding rear element. The compact CV lenses fall into this category (like the 28/3.5), but I think the larger ones like the 28/1.9 are fine in this regard.
I use a 28mm a lot on the R-D1: Currently favoring a 28/2.8 Elmarit-M Asph, but I've used the CV 28/3.5 with good results (despite some corner light fall-off), as well as Canon 28/2.8 and 28/3.5 lenses. (The Minolta M-Rokkor 28/2.8 is fantastic on the R-D1, but hard to find one without haze/coating issues.)
I also love the Canon 25/3.5 on this camera, which give about a 37mm FOV, which corresponds roughly to the entire viewfinder area (outside the 28mm frame lines).
My M-Rokkor 40/2 is great, and almost perfectly matches the 35mm frame lines, given that they're about 15% smaller than a real 35mm lens's FOV.
It's still $1000 cheaper than an M8 and, IMO, the m4/3 and other mirorless camera options don't really cut it for a real RF/VF camera shooting experience.
Cheers,
Ari
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
If you really enjoy rangefinder focusing and want to shoot digital, I still think it's relevant.
krötenblender
Well-known
The X100 is not a RF, so it cannot replace the R-D1. But it can also not be replaced by other RFs, I think, it's a unique peace of RF-tech. My R-D1 lives together with a Minolta CLE an a M9 (and some other non-RF-stuff...), but is still the camera which does the most shots over the week.
+1 to that, I have a Rokkor 28 an it had bad Schneideritis and white specks on the coating. I sent it to repair it, and it is my standard-lens on the R-D1. (see here for the thread on that lens: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101359)
Currently I'm preparing images for a very small exhibition of some of my photographs, most of them are R-D1-shots... Print-size may be a problem due to its low resolution for todays standards, but the image-quality is absolutely amazing and really has character.
japancamerahunter
Established
Thanks John, appreciate it. I have finally managed to have my account on here activated.
John is right, I have taken over the repair and camera sourcing for Dirk at JapanExposures. PLease feel free to drop me a line with any questions you may have and I shall do my best to answer you.
Thanks
Bellamy