Re-starting Production of MF Film Cameras

[jsrockit]

I have just heard on the news here that there will be more vinyl records being pressed than cds this year. If we continue with our use of film and maybe shoot a few more rolls than we did last year we could see the same kind of resurgence in film. Go ahead, buy a couple of rolls of new film and maybe we can keep the prices from soaring, and maybe a new camera or two.
Bruce

CDs are completely dead though... so not surprising. Vinyl accounted for 12% of album sales in 2018 (depending on the source 10 to 16 million units). Add streaming and downloads... it accounted for 3%. 10-16 million seems like a lot, but before streaming, some artists sold close to 10 million units on one album. One artist. Film is already kind of in the same boat. A resurgence, but still not a mainstream resurgence.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

What is doable, maybe, is keeping existing MF cameras working and taking pics for the next 50 years.

Thank You. Absolutely!!

 

[Keith]

I have just heard on the news here that there will be more vinyl records being pressed than cds this year. If we continue with our use of film and maybe shoot a few more rolls than we did last year we could see the same kind of resurgence in film. Go ahead, buy a couple of rolls of new film and maybe we can keep the prices from soaring, and maybe a new camera or two.
Bruce

I think a lot of this is to do with the discovery that CDs die eventually. I was never aware of that when I started buying them all those years ago but I have many in my collection that will no longer play. Meanwhile my collection of vinyl sits there looking at me wondering when I might get a record player to play them again some day. It's an interesting world. 🙂

 

[sooner]

Exactly! I took a darkroom class a few years ago and there were four young women in the class with me--hardly what I expected. I'm just thinking that people buying used Zi's for that kind of money, when they could just stop working and aren't repairable, begs for new models. Seriously, how much can it cost to make one of those? Not $800, I'd guess.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

"It would probably be easier to get Cosina to reintroduce the Bessa III 667 than to start fresh. What is the minimum order? I’ll buy one if it is priced around US$2k."


Small runs will never be bargain priced....

 

[Bolo Kukus]

Considering the work involved in doing proper servicing to a Rolleiflex that's really not a bad price at all. For instance it's not particularly complicated but can be time consuming to adjust the cam action and re-shim the lens parallelism back to factory tolerances. Quite apart from attending to any shutter or film advance issues requiring attention. There are fewer and fewer people willing or able to do really good work on Rolleis, (and unfortunately they are, in some cases being replaced by charlatans who think they're smarter than Frank & Heidecke, who will drop in bits of lenses to "tidy up" a Rollei before flipping it to unsuspecting buyers). None of these skilled repairers are ever going to get rich working on vintage cameras but they still have to eat.

Many good points here. An error on my part, however. I've just found the invoice on the Rollei repair and realised I was initially quoted $A450, not A$350 for a BASIC repair, without cams or speed adjustments. In short, cleaning and oiling, full stop!

I negotiated a lower price and after much kitkit and heavy bargaining, and finally paid A$290 for the Rollei CLA plus slow speed adjustment. The cams did not require any attention. That A$350 included a minor repair on one of my cherished Nikkormats which wasn't firing. I rather suspect the repair person did a fast and cheap repair for me as a favor (the 'mat works perfectly now). So as you wrote, the deal wasn't quite as horrific as it may have seemed when I got the quote...

All in Ozzy dollahs (aka South Pacific pesos) which currently rate US$0.67 and a fraction cents to the Yankee equivalent. So compared to USA prices, I paid just under US$200 for the two repair jobs. Not so bad.

I sam thankful to not having to buy anything photographic or paying for camera repairs with New Zealand dollars which nowadays seem to be as valuable (and valued) as Indonesian rupiahs.

Indeed, we Down Under colonials live in hard (and often harsh) times...

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

"It would probably be easier to get Cosina to reintroduce the Bessa III 667 than to start fresh. What is the minimum order? I’ll buy one if it is priced around US$2k."


Small runs will never be bargain priced....

I wonder how small the run would be though (compared to its original release)? I feel like Cosina discontinued the Bessa models immediately prior to the upsurge in the film market, and if they reintroduced it now they would potentially sell more than they were selling 10yrs ago.

 

[aizan]

If we ignore discontinued classic cameras, the best way forward in the new film photography era is to make simple, open source cameras. No proprietary technology! All intellectual property, if there is any, should be put under a Creative Commons 0 license. We have to make it as easy to repair and upgrade as possible.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

nickthetasmaniac, I'm not so sure. I was really keen on the Bessa/Fuji 670, but i've heard stories about their reliability & the availability of repairs. A photog friend of mine, who is very careful w/ his gear had to send his to Fuji USA twice and it didn't come back repaired.
The idea of a folding MF camera appeals to me, as i've lugged Fuji GS/GSW 680/90 around the mountains a lot with no issues. I'd be keen on an upgraded Plaubel.... had good results with those.... But i have to admit i think the market is tiny.... & i have to agree Luddites & Hipsters...

 

[ruby.monkey]

Exactly! I took a darkroom class a few years ago and there were four young women in the class with me--hardly what I expected. I'm just thinking that people buying used Zi's for that kind of money, when they could just stop working and aren't repairable, begs for new models. Seriously, how much can it cost to make one of those? Not $800, I'd guess.

By hand? Or are you going to add the cost of production machinery?

Unless there's a still-viable production facility, or you come up with a design that can be 3D-printed, any new camera's going to cost a bloody fortune.

 

[Ted Striker]

Reviving MF production? A pleasant fantasy dream - but a dream.

As I see it, the major factors AGAINST a revival of new MF cameras are -


The horrific cost of 120 film. Film in general is now expensive, I rarely buy and everyone else I know has either ceased or down-scaled their MF film use.

Ridiculous. Film, aside from E6, is not even remotely expensive. The cost of film is so minor on my outings that I dont even consider it. Yeah, if you are an E6 shooter, you pay a lot, but hardly anyone relies exclusively on E6. That's why it is so expensive.


Film, expensive? LOL!

 

[Ted Striker]

nickthetasmaniac, I'm not so sure. I was really keen on the Bessa/Fuji 670, but i've heard stories about their reliability & the availability of repairs. A photog friend of mine, who is very careful w/ his gear had to send his to Fuji USA twice and it didn't come back repaired.
The idea of a folding MF camera appeals to me, as i've lugged Fuji GS/GSW 680/90 around the mountains a lot with no issues. I'd be keen on an upgraded Plaubel.... had good results with those.... But i have to admit i think the market is tiny.... & i have to agree Luddites & Hipsters...

Odd. My GF670 has been all over the world, and has shot over 1,000 rolls of film without so much as a problem. I never take special precautions with the camera, just toss it into the bag and grab as needed. Not fragile at all.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

Ridiculous. Film, aside from E6, is not even remotely expensive. ...

Film, expensive? LOL!

I don’t know if you’re out of touch or just trolling, but in my hometown a roll of Portra400, shot and developed, will set you back about $25aud. If film is your primary medium, that’s going to rack up pretty quick.

 

[chipgreenberg]

Same here, but depends on how much you shoot. I'm in at about $35/roll developed and premium scans. But MAYBE I shoot 6 rooms a year. When I got something I like and want to get it matted/framed with museum glass it costs as much as a years worth of film if not more

I don’t know if you’re out of touch or just trolling, but in my hometown a roll of Portra400, shot and developed, will set you back about $25aud. If film is your primary medium, that’s going to rack up pretty quick.

 

[css9450]

I feel like Cosina discontinued the Bessa models immediately prior to the upsurge in the film market, and if they reintroduced it now they would potentially sell more than they were selling 10yrs ago.

They could probably sell out a new run pretty quickly but to repeat those sales year after year would be the trick. The pent-up demand would be gone after the first run. That's the hard part about entering a niche market.

Complicating the issue would be, which format to make? The 6x6 guy would be disappointed if the new camera is a 6x9, for example.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Re-starting Production of MF Film Cameras

If there was money in it, all the brands would be churning them out. And they are not. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[retinax]

I'm not so sure about having just someone doing it under license. Apart from the cost and difficulty there's also the issue of trust. I'd need a lot of confidence in the maker do make it right and to support it for a while before I'd consider buying a new, expensive camera. So I think if something like that ever happened, it would have to come from someone like Hasselblad, Phase One or Fuji. Fuji at least still have the tech around making light meters, leaf shutters and optical viewfinders, plus they make film, so the incentive of selling a bit more thereof and demonstrating commitment to it.

 

[Godfrey]

The problem is that you are looking at the most desirable medium format cameras and the relatively small market that is interested in them. There are plenty of cheap medium format cameras out there still too. That said, it appears that there is some room for someone to make a film 35mm AF advanced P&S... and if that happens, we could see others follow.

There is not enough audience for such things to be created new. I have three or four excellent 35mm "advanced P&S" cameras. All in perfect working order, and will be for years of use to come. There aren't enough buyers ... I can't even sell the used ones at a reasonable price. New ones would be double to triple the price I'd take for these.

G

 

[zuiko85]

So, it appears the only demand strong enough for continued production of a new medium format is.....(small and quiet drumroll)
The Holga 120n.
Oh well, that’s something, I guess.

Edit; Forgot, Lomography still sells the Diana+, so maybe two medium format still made new.

 

[Peter_S]

The price for a used Fuji GFX50R with lens is not far from the price of a used Bessa III 667W anymore (prices for those gone nuts). Go figure...