Re-starting Production of MF Film Cameras

[jsrockit]

There is not enough audience for such things to be created new. I have three or four excellent 35mm "advanced P&S" cameras. All in perfect working order, and will be for years of use to come. There aren't enough buyers ... I can't even sell the used ones at a reasonable price. New ones would be double to triple the price I'd take for these.

G

Yet, prices keep going up so I’m not sure where you are trying to sell. Look at the sold prices on eBay of a Yashica T4. All time high prices right now. And that isn’t even a premium compact film P&S. Your beloved polaroid style cameras are being sold again by various makers and sometimes at crazy prices new.

 

[B-9]

The guys over at Buttergrip have made the Cameradactyl “line” with the 6x9 Homonculus, 4x5 OG Handheld, and a 4x5 view camera is coming along with a promise of something new coming at the end of October.

3D printing has made anything possible. Especially if your willing to treat prototype as product.

Also, the Fuji 690s are still pretty affordable as well as the Mamiya Press line being half the Fuji’s. Still affordable ways to shoot 6x9 that I can see.

 

[Ted Striker]

I don’t know if you’re out of touch or just trolling, but in my hometown a roll of Portra400, shot and developed, will set you back about $25aud. If film is your primary medium, that’s going to rack up pretty quick.

LOL! Yeah, out of touch.


About $12 USD where I'm at to buy and develop a roll of film. Even cheaper if you do it yourself. Film costs to me are trivial. I buy and shoot as much as I want, whenever I want. Your situation is obviously different, but hardly representative of most.

 

[Ted Striker]

I'm not so sure about having just someone doing it under license. Apart from the cost and difficulty there's also the issue of trust. I'd need a lot of confidence in the maker do make it right and to support it for a while before I'd consider buying a new, expensive camera. So I think if something like that ever happened, it would have to come from someone like Hasselblad, Phase One or Fuji. Fuji at least still have the tech around making light meters, leaf shutters and optical viewfinders, plus they make film, so the incentive of selling a bit more thereof and demonstrating commitment to it.

Fujifilm outsourced all their last batch of film cameras to Cosina. They can't build them by themselves anymore it seems.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Reviving MF production? A pleasant fantasy dream - but a dream.
As I see it, the major factors AGAINST a revival of new MF cameras are -
The horrific cost of 120 film.

Ozmoose in N America 120 film is basically $5 a roll. I'd hardly call that horrific. If you put it in the context of the price of commodities: gas for your vehicle, a $5 coffee at Starbucks or similar.
I don't think that the price of film is the limiting factor. What do people do with their photos.... scan? show on Instagram or...?
In relation to a $2k-$8k body for a digital camera $5 film cost is inconsequential IMO. I agree with Cameraquest that there are enough medium format cameras out there to keep users going. As a printer, I'll tell you that i use far more 120 than 35 & 5x7".... because it hits a very sweet spot for enlarging prints. As far as a resurgence, as much as I am impressed with what you can 3d print, I don't think the results can match a Plaubel Makina, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad or Mamiya. Fuji GW670/80/90....

 

[Larry Cloetta]

If there was money in it, all the brands would be churning them out. And they are not. Draw your own conclusions.

This is it, right here.

The law of supply and demand is one of the few that is rigidly obeyed these days, and the supply of easily repaired MF cameras far outstrips the world’s demand for newly manufactured ones at the price those would need to be sold for. And the newly made more expensive ones wouldn’t take photos any better the CLA’d old ones. And you can bet your life that newly made ones would be the most expensive way to get the same result.

 

[css9450]

About $12 USD where I'm at to buy and develop a roll of film.

Its complicated because it varies so widely. I am looking at $23 to $26 for 120 C-41 processing + scan, regardless whether I get it done locally or mail it away to a lab. This would be on top of the purchase price of the film. Prints would be extra.

On the other hand, I can process B&W for just pennies a roll; one bottle of Rodinal does quite a few rolls. And B&W I scan myself because its so much easier than color.

 

[Godfrey]

Yet, prices keep going up so I’m not sure where you are trying to sell. Look at the sold prices on eBay of a Yashica T4. All time high prices right now. And that isn’t even a premium compact film P&S. Your beloved polaroid style cameras are being sold again by various makers and sometimes at crazy prices new.

EBay, craigslist, etc. Very few offers. The numbers aren't there.

Refurbishing a Polaroid SX-70 is a tremendous amount of hand work, all of which is very costly. Refurbishing and UPGRADING an SX-70, the way MiNT has done, is an even more expensive endeavor. Consider that a new SX-70 back in the day sold for $200 ... that's about a $1500 camera new now, and MiNT sells the SLR670x, their top of the line refurbished/upgraded SX-70, for about $800 ... a bargain.

The market is healthy but tiny ... It's a niche product for goofballs like me. 😀

There's absolutely no way the market would support the development costs of producing a NEW SX-70. The factory to do such a thing, even if you had the old tooling to work with, would cost hundreds of millions of dollars. The fact that MiNT has managed to produce the RF70 in very limited volume at under $1000 retail is nothing short of amazing ... and, good as it is, it's nowhere near the sophistication and quality of an original SX-70.

Note: I'm home-brewing my own Instax SQ format camera, using a processing unit from the Instant Magny 35 kickstarter project, a Mamiya 50mm lens and lens mount from the Press 23 camera, and a custom built adapter tube. That alone is about a $500 enterprise, using existing bits. Building a new camera for production from scratch is NOT easy and NOT cheap.

G

 

[jsrockit]

I get it Godfrey, but premium point and shoot cameras were never cheap. My
Point is that if there is a place where lack of supply might be lesser than demand, it could be premium point and shoots. And of course it would be the goof balls like us that would buy them, not the mainstream.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Odd. My GF670 has been all over the world, and has shot over 1,000 rolls of film without so much as a problem. I never take special precautions with the camera, just toss it into the bag and grab as needed. Not fragile at all.

Ted, I'm glad yours works flawlessly. Besides my friends' Bessa problems, there are lots of posts about lack of parts & repair availability on a recently discontinued camera. I think the Bessa lll & the Hasselblad XPan would suit my needs to a T..... i'm sadly, not prepared to take the risk involved...since neither is inexpensive despite the known problems.
I'm thinking i'll get another Plaubel Makina 670.... love those folders

 

[Ambro51]

Well, if we climb aboard the “youth likes film” train, why not a New “Brownie” Box Camera, styled for “today”. You’d have to simplify film and developing though. How about a prepaid mailer, send it in, film developed and scans sent back ASAP by email. Might work.

 

[Mooshoepork]

I don’t know if you’re out of touch or just trolling, but in my hometown a roll of Portra400, shot and developed, will set you back about $25aud. If film is your primary medium, that’s going to rack up pretty quick.

If you can’t afford $10 a roll of film choose a different hobby.

Develop and scan yourself. Shoot black and white. Collect model trains.

Film and film services in Aus are incredibly cheap

 

[Jamie123]

Unfortunately I don't think a new high quality mf camera is all that feasible these days. Yes, prices for some cameras have gone up but they're still lower than what they cost new.

Premium P&S cameras (or even low end high quality) are a different matter altogether. The prices for some models have gone up so much that it seems like they cost just as much as they did new. Also, much as one might think it's just a bubble, the fact still remains that the supply is getting more and more limited. Unlike with mechanical cameras, fewer people bother having an electronic p&s serviced (and sometimes it's just not possible). So many people would probably be happy to pay $1k for a new Klasse W/S type camera instead of the same price for a used Contax T2

 

[Jeremy Z]

One thing's for sure: being a camera technician would be a good business to go into.

Watchmaking is coming back too, to support mechanical watches coming back.

 

[jsrockit]

Unfortunately I don't think a new high quality mf camera is all that feasible these days. Yes, prices for some cameras have gone up but they're still lower than what they cost new.

Premium P&S cameras (or even low end high quality) are a different matter altogether. The prices for some models have gone up so much that it seems like they cost just as much as they did new.

They are more expensive now then when new...

 

[Bob Michaels]

One thing's for sure: being a camera technician would be a good business to go into.

I have a friend who went to Washington state to camera repair school, interned with Frank Marshman in VA, then returned to Orlando. Ten years ago he started by riding his bicycle carrying his tools to several camera shops to do repairs. Now he has his own building, has an assistant to help with minor jobs, and a half time admin person to answer the phone. But he still has an unlisted phone number and no sign in front of his shop saying the pro customers he wants to deal with know where he is and he is busy enough.

 

[Archlich]

The last one of them, the GF670W, was $2999 and many complained that it's expensive. It didn't sell well, but more likely wasn't made in large number to begin with. The demand was extremely tiny. That was 2011. Imagine the cost for anyone to build a line and make these now.

Even if we did get a new one, people would still complain - and mourn even louder when it's gone. Such is the renaissance - cameras better be dead than being new, alive and expensive.

 

[honozooloo]

A nice sentiment, but not likely to happen.

Fuji, Cosina, etc discontinued these cameras due to declining sales. In Fuji's case, what is the likelihood they would consider remanufacturing a MF camera system when they can't even sell enough 120 film to keep certain stocks in production, and they have to hike prices 30% to keep what they ARE still selling financially viable?

Just my theory. Well that and the fact that MF cameras weren't used and abused the way Nikon or Canon SLRs were in their day, for the most part...meaning a robust market full of MF cameras that are still going relatively strong compared to their 35mm brethren....

 

[Huss]

You curmudgeons do know that Lomography makes the fantastic LC-A 120, right? You can buy it brand spankin' new. So instead of griping about what it was like back in the day when film was $5 a roll (which it still is), buy an LC-A 120.

It's one of my favourite cameras, and I also have Hasselblad, Rolleiflexes, Veriwides etc etc.
Which cost waaaaaay more.

So perhaps instead of wishing and wanting, buy one and other mfgs may wake up and pay attention and see that people are buying new medium format cameras. For those who say they never would buy a new expensive MF camera (which the Lomo is not), they are the same types who would never buy a new Leica film camera. And yet Leica still makes those because there is still demand for them.

 

[Bolo Kukus]

I think a lot of this is to do with the discovery that CDs die eventually. I was never aware of that when I started buying them all those years ago but I have many in my collection that will no longer play. Meanwhile my collection of vinyl sits there looking at me wondering when I might get a record player to play them again some day. It's an interesting world. 🙂

Yes, Keith. But vinyl takes up so much space... My shelves were sagging until I disposed of about two-thirds of my vinyl a few years go. Kept the jazz and blues, so all is well.

Add the cost of a new turntable of a quality and standard I consider worth buying, costing not much less than the price of a new Nikon D610 at my camera seller in Melbourne.

Then add the replacement stylus, and a service (of turntable) every couple of years, essential if you use it regularly.

Vinyl is 1950s tech, CDs are 1980s tech. Two years ago albums cost $1 each in every op shop in Australia. Now $5-$10 or more. Hipster market.

Now I'll start playing every CD in my collection (about 3,000), and hope and pray none have "passed away" on me...

A most instructive post. Many thanks!

PS Were you referring to top brand CDs, or the cheaper 'generic' CD pressings? Is there a difference?