ROOOO
Established
I've longed for an M series rangefinder for a number of years and after Christmas last year finally decided that I would sell all my digital cameras and get an M8 to take with me on my first trip out of the States in nine years. I picked up an M8 from one of the New York Leica dealers right after New Year's, planning to spend a couple months getting used to the rangefinder experience before leaving for Europe in March.
Unfortunately, upon receiving the M8, I immediately discovered that it had a number of flaws that are at least somewhat common with this camera. The rangefinder wasn't vertically aligned and exhibited backfocusing. Additionally, photos shot at high ISOs often contained vertical lines of red or blue pixels that were consistently placed.
I immediately sent the camera back for repair. A month later I emailed Leica to check in to see when it would be ready. They told me that it wouldn't be ready until the middle of March. As a result, I postponed my trip to Europe until the end of March.
When I received the M8 back, I found that they had repaired the rangefinder alignment, but they had neglected to fix the problem with the vertical lines that appeared in high ISO images.
Once again, I immediately returned the camera for a re-repair. And again I postponed my trip to Europe until this coming weekend. Leica assured me that they would repair the camera ASAP. I was hopeful, as I heard from Dave Elwell at Leica's New Jersey office last Monday telling me that the camera was "on the bench" for repair and that he just needed me to send a sample file from the camera indicating where the vertical lines were appearing. I did so immediately after I got off the phone with him.
Later in the week, I attempted to follow up with both Sarah Mayville and Dave to check in on my camera's status but did not hear anything back from them. I sent additional emails over the weekend.
Having not heard anything by this morning, I placed calls to both of them but neither answered. Dave had an auto response, indicating that he is out of the office until next week, and his extension forwarded me on to the general repair department, where I spoke with someone else.
I asked her about the status of my repair, and she said it wouldn't be finished until May! When I told her that it was a re-repair and that Dave had mentioned that it was "on the bench" last week, she went to go check on it. According to what she found, there was no indication that the repair had been fast-tracked at all, but that I should check back again.
At this point, all I want is for Leica to ship the camera or a temporary loaner back to me overnight--repaired or not--so that I'll have it back in time for my trip this weekend. I'm more than willing to pay whatever the cost of shipping it back to me. I emailed Christian Erhardt, who I think is the VP of Marketing for Leica U.S., asking for as much. I hope that he is responsive and able to have someone take care of this. However, I have yet to hear anything back.
I wish I could be more optimistic at this point, but it's really unclear as to whether Leica is going to come through, and it seems more likely that it won't.
I have no doubt that Leica makes wonderful cameras. I've spent too much time reading this and other Leica forums over the past six months. I believe that much of the fanaticism that Leica users have for its cameras is justified. The 30 minutes or so that I've spent handling my M8 over the past few months have revealed it to be an incredibly well-engineered camera that, in many ways, lives up to my expectations. I love my R8 and I really want to love my M8, but it's tough given the context of Leica's customer service, given the fact that I purchased the camera with what I felt was sufficient lead time for a once-in-a-decade trip. I've now spent hundreds of extra dollars postponing my trip twice in the hope that I would get my M8 back in time for it. And yet that still might not be enough.
I understand that Leica's repair operation is small compared to, say, Canon's, which can turn around a camera in a week. And it is probably under much more pressure with the popularity of the M9 and X1. However, my whole experience has been frustrating, time consuming, and costly beyond what I would expect, especially given the cost of Leica's products and its status as a revered, premium brand.
Consequently, I'm about ready to give up on that brand and just use my GF1 until someone else produces and supports a digital rangefinder with an optical viewfinder and an M-mount. I wish this wasn't the case, but it is what it is. If anyone has suggestions or contacts for resolving this issue with Leica, New Jersey, in the next couple days, I would greatly appreciate them.
Thanks,
Rick
*UPDATE*
I heard back from both my dealer and Leica this morning. They said that I'll get the camera back by Friday, so we'll see what happens. It sounds like they're going to come through. In the meantime, I wait for a tracking number.
*UPDATE 2*
I received the camera back on Friday morning as I posted here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1301234&postcount=123
Leica did come through for me!
*UPDATE 3*
I had a chance to test out the M8 yesterday. Leica did repair the problem with the sensor causing vertical lines on high ISO images. However, they returned the camera to me with the rangefinder vertically misaligned. I took the camera to my local dealer today, and he confirmed the issue within a minute. I don't think I have any option but to return the camera to Leica, New Jersey, once again. I think I will have spent nearly $300 on shipping and insurance and my time just on the several trips to FedEx/UPS I've had to make.
Unfortunately, upon receiving the M8, I immediately discovered that it had a number of flaws that are at least somewhat common with this camera. The rangefinder wasn't vertically aligned and exhibited backfocusing. Additionally, photos shot at high ISOs often contained vertical lines of red or blue pixels that were consistently placed.
I immediately sent the camera back for repair. A month later I emailed Leica to check in to see when it would be ready. They told me that it wouldn't be ready until the middle of March. As a result, I postponed my trip to Europe until the end of March.
When I received the M8 back, I found that they had repaired the rangefinder alignment, but they had neglected to fix the problem with the vertical lines that appeared in high ISO images.
Once again, I immediately returned the camera for a re-repair. And again I postponed my trip to Europe until this coming weekend. Leica assured me that they would repair the camera ASAP. I was hopeful, as I heard from Dave Elwell at Leica's New Jersey office last Monday telling me that the camera was "on the bench" for repair and that he just needed me to send a sample file from the camera indicating where the vertical lines were appearing. I did so immediately after I got off the phone with him.
Later in the week, I attempted to follow up with both Sarah Mayville and Dave to check in on my camera's status but did not hear anything back from them. I sent additional emails over the weekend.
Having not heard anything by this morning, I placed calls to both of them but neither answered. Dave had an auto response, indicating that he is out of the office until next week, and his extension forwarded me on to the general repair department, where I spoke with someone else.
I asked her about the status of my repair, and she said it wouldn't be finished until May! When I told her that it was a re-repair and that Dave had mentioned that it was "on the bench" last week, she went to go check on it. According to what she found, there was no indication that the repair had been fast-tracked at all, but that I should check back again.
At this point, all I want is for Leica to ship the camera or a temporary loaner back to me overnight--repaired or not--so that I'll have it back in time for my trip this weekend. I'm more than willing to pay whatever the cost of shipping it back to me. I emailed Christian Erhardt, who I think is the VP of Marketing for Leica U.S., asking for as much. I hope that he is responsive and able to have someone take care of this. However, I have yet to hear anything back.
I wish I could be more optimistic at this point, but it's really unclear as to whether Leica is going to come through, and it seems more likely that it won't.
I have no doubt that Leica makes wonderful cameras. I've spent too much time reading this and other Leica forums over the past six months. I believe that much of the fanaticism that Leica users have for its cameras is justified. The 30 minutes or so that I've spent handling my M8 over the past few months have revealed it to be an incredibly well-engineered camera that, in many ways, lives up to my expectations. I love my R8 and I really want to love my M8, but it's tough given the context of Leica's customer service, given the fact that I purchased the camera with what I felt was sufficient lead time for a once-in-a-decade trip. I've now spent hundreds of extra dollars postponing my trip twice in the hope that I would get my M8 back in time for it. And yet that still might not be enough.
I understand that Leica's repair operation is small compared to, say, Canon's, which can turn around a camera in a week. And it is probably under much more pressure with the popularity of the M9 and X1. However, my whole experience has been frustrating, time consuming, and costly beyond what I would expect, especially given the cost of Leica's products and its status as a revered, premium brand.
Consequently, I'm about ready to give up on that brand and just use my GF1 until someone else produces and supports a digital rangefinder with an optical viewfinder and an M-mount. I wish this wasn't the case, but it is what it is. If anyone has suggestions or contacts for resolving this issue with Leica, New Jersey, in the next couple days, I would greatly appreciate them.
Thanks,
Rick
*UPDATE*
I heard back from both my dealer and Leica this morning. They said that I'll get the camera back by Friday, so we'll see what happens. It sounds like they're going to come through. In the meantime, I wait for a tracking number.
*UPDATE 2*
I received the camera back on Friday morning as I posted here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1301234&postcount=123
Leica did come through for me!
*UPDATE 3*
I had a chance to test out the M8 yesterday. Leica did repair the problem with the sensor causing vertical lines on high ISO images. However, they returned the camera to me with the rangefinder vertically misaligned. I took the camera to my local dealer today, and he confirmed the issue within a minute. I don't think I have any option but to return the camera to Leica, New Jersey, once again. I think I will have spent nearly $300 on shipping and insurance and my time just on the several trips to FedEx/UPS I've had to make.
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blimey
Established
That is not good. I do agree that their customer service is lost somewhere. I sent my titanium DLUX4 for repair because the focusing is hunting a lot and the lens has developed a filmy color. I do not expect to hear from them for at least 1 month or more. I just got the M8 and fortunately I do not have your problems. (knock on wood). I have a trip coming up as well and would love to have the DLUX4 back for the 24mm and 16:9 aspect. But, after reading some of the threads about repair delays, I'm stuck on learning the M8 and new 35mm lens.
I hope it works out for you. A Eurotrip is the place for a good camera! I went to Paris/Italy with 2MP camera back in 2004 and regretted it! Then went again to Paris/Barcelona with DLUX4 and was quite satisfied with the results. Now, I have a trip to Aruba/Hawaii this year. I hope to have all my gears then. After all, these are once of a life time experiences.
I hope it works out for you. A Eurotrip is the place for a good camera! I went to Paris/Italy with 2MP camera back in 2004 and regretted it! Then went again to Paris/Barcelona with DLUX4 and was quite satisfied with the results. Now, I have a trip to Aruba/Hawaii this year. I hope to have all my gears then. After all, these are once of a life time experiences.
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tbarker13
shooter of stuff
I feel for you dude. Unfortunately, I don't know that you are going to have much luck getting fast results on your own.
I've had two similar experiences - the first involving my original M8. And the second involving a 35 pre-asph lux and my second M8.
I won't go into huge detail, but the first camera went away to Leica and would have been gone for many months without the help of Tony Rose of PopFlash. At one point - out of frustration - I emailed him to let him know what was happening with the camera I'd bought from him. He ended up talking to Leica NJ and they sent me a new camera. That was a fantastic gesture on the company's part. Would they have done it without input from one of of their big US dealers? I don't know.
In the second instance, my 35 pre-asph lux (and my M8) ended up on some wild journey from here to NJ. Back to me (unrepaired). Then back to NJ. Then off to Germany. Back to NJ. Then back to Germany. And finally back to me again (about 5 months later). Helping me throughout this process was Sherry Krauter - well-known repair tech. Eventually, she helped me get a loaner camera and lens to use while all this was happening.
I'm sure you will hear from others who have had better experiences, but I'm not sure you - as a single user - will get much traction.
I've had two similar experiences - the first involving my original M8. And the second involving a 35 pre-asph lux and my second M8.
I won't go into huge detail, but the first camera went away to Leica and would have been gone for many months without the help of Tony Rose of PopFlash. At one point - out of frustration - I emailed him to let him know what was happening with the camera I'd bought from him. He ended up talking to Leica NJ and they sent me a new camera. That was a fantastic gesture on the company's part. Would they have done it without input from one of of their big US dealers? I don't know.
In the second instance, my 35 pre-asph lux (and my M8) ended up on some wild journey from here to NJ. Back to me (unrepaired). Then back to NJ. Then off to Germany. Back to NJ. Then back to Germany. And finally back to me again (about 5 months later). Helping me throughout this process was Sherry Krauter - well-known repair tech. Eventually, she helped me get a loaner camera and lens to use while all this was happening.
I'm sure you will hear from others who have had better experiences, but I'm not sure you - as a single user - will get much traction.
bob338
Well-known
can you do what Tim did in his post above and have your dealer go to bat for you?
i've had nothing but great experiences with leica so far, but they are not known for speed...
good luck.
bob
i've had nothing but great experiences with leica so far, but they are not known for speed...
good luck.
bob
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Wow ... that's really poor service and if you bailed out of rangefinders (and Leica) all together who could blame you!
The M8 is a great camera when the stars are aligned correctly but these sorts of stories make me flinch.
The M8 is a great camera when the stars are aligned correctly but these sorts of stories make me flinch.
Cron
Well-known
not the first time I hear from really poor Leica service!
Nevertheless I like their products
Nevertheless I like their products
Quinn Porter
Established
Every email I've sent to Leica service has gone unanswered. It's a major problem for them. There is no way they can continue to sell equipment at the highest of price points and then treat their customers like dirt. Eventually it will be their downfall. It's too bad.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
My MP has been at Solms for over two months now with a electrical problem. And this is why I bought a Lumix over a DLux. It is essentially the same camera but if something goes wrong I prefer to let Panasonic handle it. The DLux may have an extra year's warranty but then they keep it for at least 3 months.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
You postponed holidays to Europe over A CAMERA????
Jaakko
Newbie
btgc
Veteran
Not trying to sound smart-ass, though decision to make transition right before trip of decade is what made things looking so bad. Would you experience issues during your daily routines, you'd continue to use what you have and paralelly sort out M8 problems with Leica - there would not be busy background of expectations.
When company deploys new IT system during peak of intro of new product, they are just asking for trouble. Hope you will have great trip with or without M8.
When company deploys new IT system during peak of intro of new product, they are just asking for trouble. Hope you will have great trip with or without M8.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
And secondly - you bought a camera from a dealer - discovered immediately that it was a lemon. Why didn't you return it and get a good one or your money back ? And, as said, postponed your holidays twice. Curioser and curioser. I have a hard time believing this story.
And, as said, postponed your holidays twice. Curioser and curioser. I have a hard time believing this story.
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niels christopher
Established
And secondly - you bought a camera from a dealer - discovered immediately that it was a lemon. Why didn't you return it and get a good one or your money back ?
I would'nt want to go on holiday w/o my camera as well, especially if it's such a huge trip to Europe or something...
Anyways, i hope everything turns out well for you!
Jaans
Well-known
Sorry to hear about your tech problems. Without trying to start an anti digital rant, after your first experience with the problematic M8 I would have given up on the whole notion and gone for a M2 with light meter or M6 and used the change for film. I haven't gone digital yet - still process all my own film and haven't even bought a film scanner to scan that yet! But, I have travelled extensively with my Leica film cameras and film through Asia, Europe and Central America and have no regrets. It can be done with a little planning.
Good luck>
Good luck>
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Wow, are we in shooting the victim mode this morning? Leica service sucks. It's not this guy's fault.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Agreed ... let's not shoot the messenger here.
Rick strikes me as someone who is reluctant to cause any ruckus over this and is being incredibly patient and tolerant with these fools ... but I would certainly have lost my cool by now!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Rick,
Sh*t happens.
My very first new Leica lens, around 30 years ago, was a 35/1.4 Summilux. I took it home; ceremonially slit the cellophane; mounted the lens on my camera . . . and the focusing mount jammed! So I called Leica (this was in the UK).
A bored young man said, "Oh... Yes... It will take about 3 weeks to fix."
I replied, "No, it f***ing won't. It will take return of post to replace."
He said, "There's no need to be like that, sir."
I replied, "Clearly, there is." The dealer from which I bought it agreed. It was replaced by return of post.
There are always glitches and hangups. Leica UK is orders of magnitude better than it was in the early 1980s. All of Leica wants to be that way, at the higher levels. Unfortunately, as with any luxury product, there are always salesmen who give themselves airs and graces because they are selling something expensive. There are also those who rely on a soft answer to turn away wrath. Do not put up with it. Suggest politely but firmly that they WILL fix it, quite quickly. Or replace it.
In the early 1980s, I was just another customer (I admit I can get to the top quite quickly now). But really, I suspect that you have been unlucky and that Solms might be interested in hearing both sides of this saga, from you and from Joisey.
Cheers,
R.
Sh*t happens.
My very first new Leica lens, around 30 years ago, was a 35/1.4 Summilux. I took it home; ceremonially slit the cellophane; mounted the lens on my camera . . . and the focusing mount jammed! So I called Leica (this was in the UK).
A bored young man said, "Oh... Yes... It will take about 3 weeks to fix."
I replied, "No, it f***ing won't. It will take return of post to replace."
He said, "There's no need to be like that, sir."
I replied, "Clearly, there is." The dealer from which I bought it agreed. It was replaced by return of post.
There are always glitches and hangups. Leica UK is orders of magnitude better than it was in the early 1980s. All of Leica wants to be that way, at the higher levels. Unfortunately, as with any luxury product, there are always salesmen who give themselves airs and graces because they are selling something expensive. There are also those who rely on a soft answer to turn away wrath. Do not put up with it. Suggest politely but firmly that they WILL fix it, quite quickly. Or replace it.
In the early 1980s, I was just another customer (I admit I can get to the top quite quickly now). But really, I suspect that you have been unlucky and that Solms might be interested in hearing both sides of this saga, from you and from Joisey.
Cheers,
R.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Nor me - so I would take another camera...I would'nt want to go on holiday w/o my camera as well, especially if it's such a huge trip to Europe or something...
Anyways, i hope everything turns out well for you!
ruslan
Established
I have bad experience in customer service with couple of European companies, like Leica, Broncolor (N1 worst service), Profoto, BMW, Volvo, and zero problem with American and Japanese service, maybe just me?
ashrafazlan
Established
The OP probably wants to shoot with the M8. I've cancelled 2-3 outings myself when my M8 died, my D700 just isn't as fun to shoot with