Reccomend a Folder (6x4.5)

[B-9]

Looking for a 6x4.5 Folder, here are a few of my requirements.

1. Rangefinder
2. 6X4.5
3. Side folding deck|rail
4. Tessar type lens
5. 1-500 shutter speed
6. Flash-sync

Best 4 of 6 makes for a good fit.


So far ive found the Petri RF and Konica Pearl II, but there must be more!

 

[sevo]

I suspect that the Karoron and other similar Japanese models all are the same as the Petri (maybe all of them were made by yet another party). In general, you'll have to look to Japan for 6x4.5 folders - that was the only market where they were popular for a extended period, elsewhere they only had a very brief popularity phase in 1934-39.

In pre war Germany, there was the Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta A, and Plaubel had the Roll-Op 6x4.5, both coupled. And Welta had a semi-modular concept, so they could offer their (pre war) dedicated 6x4.5 cameras with optional (coupled or uncoupled) rangefinders (however most seem to have been sold without it).

 

[Pherdinand]

why "uncoupled, of course"?

 

[Beemermark]

Zeiss Super Ikonta A, best of the bunch by a mile. Ensigns are nice also. I haven't had a lot of luck with the Japanese folders. The don't seem to hold up as well as the Zeiss. Except for shutters and the Albada VF on the later models I never seen any issues with the Ikontas (and I've owned a lot, I have 4 right now).

 

[Dante_Stella]

Looking for a 6x4.5 Folder, here are a few of my requirements.

1. Rangefinder (uncoupled of course)
2. 6X4.5 (not 6x6 with mask, no multiformat stuff)
3. Side folding deck|rail
4. Tessar type lens
5. 1-500 shutter speed
6. Flash-sync


So far ive found the Petri RF and Konica Pearl II, but there must be more!

FYI on the Pearl II - it does not have X synch (and cannot be made to x-synch by adjusting the shutter), and it does have a coupled rangefinder (the rangefinder operates a distance/dof scale under a window). Note that the Pearl IIB (faster 3.5 Hexar lens, still marked "II") has a totally unsynched Durax shutter and no automatic DOF scale - that may be the source of the confusion).

Some other tips:

1. Ditch the Tessar and get the Fuji GS645 with its Heliar-style lens. Way better lens, way better RF, parallax correction metering(!), modern film loading. Not small, but very capable. The fabled bellows issues are less common than bellows issues on 1950s folders.

2. The Pearl II is a great camera, with the usual virtues and vices:
- Sharp lens
- No DE prevention
- It is easy to fat roll with modern film unless you press in while turning the takeup key. That's because the thicker film has significantly more resistance, and the winding key then cams out of the spool.
- But ecause it does not have a mechanical counter, it can be used with thicker modern films w/o spacing issues
- Small VF with bright RF spot
- Takes microscopic filters
- No strap lugs
- Leatherette leprosy is rampant

3. I have owned and shot both Pearls and Super Ikonta As. The IQ seems a little better on the Pearls, but that may be a function of my having shot a lot of uncoated 531s. The Pearl also has the advantage of a combined VF/RF, which you can't get on Super As and Cs.

Dante

 

[sevo]

Oh, and of course none of the pre-war cameras have sync - that was not even invented back then...

 

[rhl-oregon]

I've posted elsewhere on rff on my affection and respect for my Ikonta (A) 520/16 with its Tessar. Splendid image maker, $56 investment. Maybe doesn't meet all your criteria, but most of them.

 

[B-9]

why "uncoupled, of course"?

Most of the cheapies seem to be uncoupled. Which is just fine by me.

Im looking more towards 6x6 now, but Ide really prefer to find a good fit in an old 6x4.5 folder. But alas, the Super Baldax 6x6 has me salivating. Synchro-Compur 3.5/80 should be cheaper than the 2.8, Certo6's site has really good info to go on, especially for newcomers. His prices seem really fair for overhauled gear, but I wouldn't mind testing my savvy with a bargain buy.

No interest in the Fuji's, and ide much prefer a Tessar type lens.

Ive also found a neat little Zenobia C 6x4.5 at a local thrift shop, but its the slower 1-200 max shutter without a RF. Shutters a little sticky, but I bet it would only take a bit of working out. Focus seems to work. Aperture is dry. For 20$, is it worth a try!?

Just twiddling thumbs here guys, Thanks for the Suggestions!

 

[julio1fer]

Of course it is. The Daichii Zenobia is very good if in reasonable condition. I run many rolls through one, now in the hands of a friend.

I am trying a Minolta Semi now.

 

[B-9]

Ill try and pick it up, why not right. lol

 

[fuji645]

I have both the Fuji and the Zenobia. Optics, handling and quality on the former are outstanding. The Zenobia is cute, pocketable and a good performer. You won't have to spend much either on it and it has X synch!

 

[BobBill]

I will try this once again...site always times me out...so I lurk a lot.

Be patient. Look for decent Pearl, and be patient...in meantime find a good 6x6 or 6x9 to play with...and be patient. If it doesn't feel right, stay away.

CONUS only and if eBay, only sellers under 500 or so, with 100%. Be patient and careful.

Even if careful, and lucky - big part of it - you might end up a sort of collector like me.

I have two very nice 6x9s, two very nice 6x6s and a very nice 645 Pearl (I). Only one is coupled, so? and I really have one each 6x9 and 6x6 too many...can only shoot one at a time. And the little Konica Pearl is hard to leave in bag, I mean it is really nice camera.

If European folder, only shutter to 500 are Synchro Compurs...

If Nippon, all decent ones use Koni Rapid-S or one other (can't recall (Seikosha???) and all go to 500. (Like you, I need 500 with fast 3.5 or 2.8 just enough to make it a must.)

The 6x6s are nice, but near twice the size and wgt of the wee Pearl 645...and the 6x9 negatives suit the camera sizes for "big."

You need a decent 6x9 or 6x6 in meantime, PM me. I would not mind giving up one of each...I shoot, not collect.

Of course, 645s were Mamiya game and there is always boxie one...Pentax, etc. But decent old folder...patience. You want to pay, there is the Konica Pearl IV, but few CONUS and Nippon sellers seem to think we Yanks are easy touches for big money...camera is nice and small though, but its production is not better than the basic Pearl like I have, seriously.

Have fun...just my 2-cents plain.

Patience.

 

[BobBill]

Most of the cheapies seem to be uncoupled. Which is just fine by me.

Im looking more towards 6x6 now, but Ide really prefer to find a good fit in an old 6x4.5 folder. But alas, the Super Baldax 6x6 has me salivating. Synchro-Compur 3.5/80 should be cheaper than the 2.8, Certo6's site has really good info to go on, especially for newcomers. His prices seem really fair for overhauled gear, but I wouldn't mind testing my savvy with a bargain buy.

No interest in the Fuji's, and ide much prefer a Tessar type lens.

Ive also found a neat little Zenobia C 6x4.5 at a local thrift shop, but its the slower 1-200 max shutter without a RF. Shutters a little sticky, but I bet it would only take a bit of working out. Focus seems to work. Aperture is dry. For 20$, is it worth a try!?

Just twiddling thumbs here guys, Thanks for the Suggestions!

Would you say uncoupled is function of cheap or timing...when produced? Lot of fine folders are uncoupled; maybe the best ones are uncoupled?

 

[B-9]

Not trying to suggest quality is cheap, more so resale prices.

Ide prefer a RF, coupled or not.

I was willing to shell out for a Fuji GS645, but after browsing my other options, ide rather spend my money on a Super Baldax.

The Super Baldax seems like the perfect fit, if only it was 645 😉 the Little Konica Pearl is a real teaser. So far ive found very few listings. Patience, indeed.

 

[Dante_Stella]

Here's a hack job: a Pearl IIb top plate on a Pearl III chassis:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321661514270

By the way, there are four Pearl IVs on the auction site right now.

Dante

 

[B-9]

Took your advice BobBill, I pulled the trigger on a cheap Super Baldax, while i wait for a nice 645.

Ebay link: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181655017994&alt=web

I figure, if I cant figure it out, Certo6 has really fair service prices.
Ill save a few $$ sending one, versus buying a camera from him.

 

[kuzano]

So many variations on the Zenobia.

So many variations on the Zenobia.

I actually had a Zenobia R... very hard to find rangefinder uncoupled.

I was hooked on Zenobia's for a while. Although there is not much difference in quality, there are three variations in the shutters. The D.O.C. shutter is weak in reliablility.

There is a Compur Rapid shutter which has 1/500th shutter speed.

The R is almost impossible to find, but all the others turn up frequently on eBay.

I had good luck with them.

The GS645 folder has a shutter problem in extreme cold shooting. Sticks, and it's a chronic issue that Frank Marshman told me is almost impossible to fix.

Furthermore the synthetic (paper) bellows resulted in a one year production run before being discontinued. (no documentation on that)

Three I bought had the pinhole problem on the bellows, so I sent them to Frank for bellows replacement at a fair price. I would not buy a GS645 without documentation of a new bellows. I did buy others intentionally with bad bellows and had Frank replace the bellow. I would never pay over $200 for a GS645 with no evidence of bellows replacement.

People are paying outragious prices for them, ... way too much for a camera that won't shoot in very cold weather.

Super Baldax and crop, or slip a mask for 645 in place. Excellent camera in either uncoupled or coupled variety.

Cheapest, fun, decent IQ 645 folder.. Zenobia. Most have problems on the plasticy covering, but handle nicely.

Oh yes, another dual format option... Voigtlander BESSA RF, and Voigtlander BESSA 1. These can be found with a mask insert that allows you to shoot 6x9 and 6.45.

Best ones I had.... The RF with a Heliar, and the BESSA 1 with Color Skopar... be sure to get the mask. Have seen the masks alone on eBay for near $100 alone.

Good Luck

 

[graywolf]

. But alas, the Super Baldax 6x6 has me salivating. Synchro-Compur 3.5/80 should be cheaper than the 2.8, Certo6's site has really good info to go on, especially for newcomers. His prices seem really fair for overhauled gear, but I wouldn't mind testing my savvy with a bargain buy.

Certo6 has on on ebay right now. Way out of my price range though.

However, if you want the Sycro-Compur you have to go with the 2.8 Ennit lens, it was the only one fitted into the SC. The strange thing is the Super Baldax's were the cheapest RF roll film cameras available back in the early 50's by my memory, about 1/2 the price of the other brands. I have no idea why they are so expensive today.

 

[B-9]

I broke down a bought a Super Baldax with the Prontor shutter and 3.5 Baldinar.

The price was a 1/4 of what Certo6 has listed on his site, good score in my book.

It should arrive from GB this week.

Im looking forward to cleaning it up, and running the 70+ rolls of 120 ive been stashing (for months anticipating a move to MF)

I think I need a bigger Paterson Tank 😉 Multi-Reel 8 anyone?

 

[Dante_Stella]

I'd stay away from the Multi-Reel 8. Owning and using a couple, the pour-in times for 2.5L are very long - meaning that the best consistency is going to come from dropping the loaded spindle (5 reels) into a full tank. That puts a lot of pressure on the lightproofing of your developing area.

If you go the 8 reel way, I would suggest at a minimum using a 1 gal screwtop, wide-mouth round cereal container (you can get these from Dollar General) to dump developer into the tank as fast as possible, and do a straight-down dump of all of the used developer into a dishpan (so you do not overcook your film trying to get it to pour neatly through a funnel back into your long-term storage container - you should do that step in a more leisurely fashion while your film is sitting safely in stop bath). Do the same with stop bath and fixer.

Dante