Bill Pierce
Well-known
Kirk Tuck has a good blog. Here’s one of the reasons why…
http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-practice-of-photography-can-be-like.html
http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-practice-of-photography-can-be-like.html
konicaman
konicaman
That was a good and provoking read indeed - thanks for posting.
I especially liked the part about testing ourselves instead of our gear, and choosing subject matter over style. Food for thought. I printed it to give it a deeper read later.
I especially liked the part about testing ourselves instead of our gear, and choosing subject matter over style. Food for thought. I printed it to give it a deeper read later.
gb hill
Veteran
Good food for thought Bill. I have & am quite pleased with the gear I have & am wanting to focus more on myself as a photographer. I am going through a few neglected lenses for compatibility on my Bessa RF. I feel I need to work on self confidence. I went for a walk through the park & got a few candids. I can't wait to see them once developed & spoke to a couple I photographed. I felt very positive coming away from that.
rkm
Well-known
Thanks for sharing. I've been reading a book by Paul Hill called "Approaching Photography" that deals with the language of images, and shares some similar concepts. Good food for thought.
Thoughtful and interesting... and an odd choice of photo to illustrate the article.
Charlie Lemay
Well-known
Thanks for the link Bill.
I think unique personal vision is the most rewarding aspect of art making once you learn your chops. Many curators seem not to agree. When I showed my digital collage portfolio to the director of Les Filles du Chavalier Gallery in a portfolio review in Arles in 2008, she stopped me at the second print and began to yell that what I was doing was not photography, it had no place being at Arles and she would not continue to look at any more of it. I was a bit angry, since I paid for this review, but then I realized I had actually hit it out of the park getting such visceral reaction from an old school guardian at the gate.
The approach I take with my B&W work mightseem more like documentation, because I find my subjects and record them, but I have learned to see my subjects in a unique personal way. I do what I ask my students to do, "Don't show us the images we've all seen before, show us the images, that if you don't make them, no one else will ever get to see."
i found the article very validating.
Thank you.
Charlie
I think unique personal vision is the most rewarding aspect of art making once you learn your chops. Many curators seem not to agree. When I showed my digital collage portfolio to the director of Les Filles du Chavalier Gallery in a portfolio review in Arles in 2008, she stopped me at the second print and began to yell that what I was doing was not photography, it had no place being at Arles and she would not continue to look at any more of it. I was a bit angry, since I paid for this review, but then I realized I had actually hit it out of the park getting such visceral reaction from an old school guardian at the gate.
The approach I take with my B&W work mightseem more like documentation, because I find my subjects and record them, but I have learned to see my subjects in a unique personal way. I do what I ask my students to do, "Don't show us the images we've all seen before, show us the images, that if you don't make them, no one else will ever get to see."
i found the article very validating.
Thank you.
Charlie
Carterofmars
Well-known
Shooting Buildings In Boston. Sony Nex 7 and 50mm.
Wonderful, wonderful. Thanks Bill.
Wonderful, wonderful. Thanks Bill.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
An old wisdom written in a fresh new perspective.
Agree, that particular one is good.
Agree, that particular one is good.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
An excellent article. A lot of people don't understand the "work".
I had a meeting with an ad agency the other day that wanted to see my "book". As I was showing the young woman my work, she commented, "I enjoy seeing the work of photographers (she stopped just short of saying "older") who have been around. A lot of younger photographers are into a technique or a fashionable look, but no vision".
While the meeting didn't turn into a monetary assignment, I was happy to have left with her statement.
I had a meeting with an ad agency the other day that wanted to see my "book". As I was showing the young woman my work, she commented, "I enjoy seeing the work of photographers (she stopped just short of saying "older") who have been around. A lot of younger photographers are into a technique or a fashionable look, but no vision".
While the meeting didn't turn into a monetary assignment, I was happy to have left with her statement.
furcafe
Veteran
It's a good essay & contains some good advice, but Mr. Tuck must live in a different world from me. In the world of "serious" or art photography, at least, I see the pendulum as having swung heavily away from those pursuing "found" images ("window"?) or the documentary tradition towards those directing/manufacturing images ("mirror"?) in the studio-centric style. In fact, genres like documentary or street are neglected stepchildren in the art world compared to the likes of Wall or Crewdson.
He has a point regarding the vast majority of phone/Instagram images being taken for documentary or "enhanced" documentary purposes, but to me those are analogous to the snaps that non-photographers have always taken. IMHO, just because they're more accessible & visible now due to the internet & digital technology doesn't mean they've fundamentally shifted the paradigm for serious photographers. To the contrary, as he hints, the malleability of digital has made this a golden age for those who prefer to construct imagery (e.g., the thread about CGI killing product photography).
Also, I would disagree with his implication that documentation is somehow divorced from interpretation; quality documentary photography requires interpretation & a personal vision just like any artistic pursuit, it is not merely acting as a security camera or Xerox machine. Similarly, his well-stated point that "[t]he more uniform the application of technical norms the less we are drawn towards the image" is just as true, if not more so, with regard to constructed imagery as it is with documentary work.
He has a point regarding the vast majority of phone/Instagram images being taken for documentary or "enhanced" documentary purposes, but to me those are analogous to the snaps that non-photographers have always taken. IMHO, just because they're more accessible & visible now due to the internet & digital technology doesn't mean they've fundamentally shifted the paradigm for serious photographers. To the contrary, as he hints, the malleability of digital has made this a golden age for those who prefer to construct imagery (e.g., the thread about CGI killing product photography).
Also, I would disagree with his implication that documentation is somehow divorced from interpretation; quality documentary photography requires interpretation & a personal vision just like any artistic pursuit, it is not merely acting as a security camera or Xerox machine. Similarly, his well-stated point that "[t]he more uniform the application of technical norms the less we are drawn towards the image" is just as true, if not more so, with regard to constructed imagery as it is with documentary work.
Last edited:
tjh
Well-known
I think you are absolutely correct. I saw the "directing/manufacturing" of images in a lot of photos at Arles last year. Lots of models in studio settings, various objects scattered about, and a few dead birds. I'm not making an appeal against such photography, just observing what the art world may consider important.
However, my vision resonates more with documentary and street photography.
furcafe
Veteran
Maybe the situation is different in Austin, TX where Mr. Tuck lives or maybe commercial shooters he knows are more documentary in their approach (I know there's been a small trend in wedding shooters), but if anything I'd think we have more photojournalists, etc. here in DC & the photo scene here, at least in the galleries (not museums), is still skewed more towards fine art than documentary/PJ work, if less so than NYC.
zuiko85
Veteran
Wow! That is deep. Too deep for this old guy. I have nothing more glorious in mind when dinking around with old mechanical cameras than having fun. Sure ain't no artist. Just love to see what pops up when I pull those negs from the reel.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I like the spirit of the article, but really cannot agree with many of the things Tuck says.
Isn't this idea part of the "mirror image" phenomenon that he is criticizing? In the age of cybernetics and bionano-information technology, the difference between "testing ourselves" and "testing our equipment" just doesn't exist in the old conventional way that Tuck thinks it does.
And while I reserve great admiration for some photographers who create images, photographers of the "found image" should not be denigrated so much as recontextualized. The meaning of viewership and community has changed so much, I don't see why those things should not be valorized.
There is a massive democratization of the arts, in every sphere, and of course it is highly problematic, but does anybody really think that a reassertion of old hierarchies or nostalgia for the past will help us move forward? A certain not small percentage of these people have absolutely no hope or desire or even interest in gaining "recognition" for their "work". In fact, you could argue that they refuse the category of "work" itself, and that their photographs, which look like "embellished documentary", partake in a redefinition of social relations the key to which is the realization that nobody is ever just an observer.
"Finding images" could also be an art, one that takes enormous skill and preparation. Perhaps the practitioners of this art are themselves a kind of equipment.
But yeah, there are ALSO real artists of the craft. I just don't see why the two types cannot coexist and be equally valorized.
Isn't this idea part of the "mirror image" phenomenon that he is criticizing? In the age of cybernetics and bionano-information technology, the difference between "testing ourselves" and "testing our equipment" just doesn't exist in the old conventional way that Tuck thinks it does.
And while I reserve great admiration for some photographers who create images, photographers of the "found image" should not be denigrated so much as recontextualized. The meaning of viewership and community has changed so much, I don't see why those things should not be valorized.
There is a massive democratization of the arts, in every sphere, and of course it is highly problematic, but does anybody really think that a reassertion of old hierarchies or nostalgia for the past will help us move forward? A certain not small percentage of these people have absolutely no hope or desire or even interest in gaining "recognition" for their "work". In fact, you could argue that they refuse the category of "work" itself, and that their photographs, which look like "embellished documentary", partake in a redefinition of social relations the key to which is the realization that nobody is ever just an observer.
"Finding images" could also be an art, one that takes enormous skill and preparation. Perhaps the practitioners of this art are themselves a kind of equipment.
But yeah, there are ALSO real artists of the craft. I just don't see why the two types cannot coexist and be equally valorized.
leicapixie
Well-known
I follow Kirk Tuck's Blog.Visual Science.
I enjoy it BUT..Kirk goes thru equipment,
new brands, systems, lenses and choices
faster than a speeding bullet.
Kirk has good thought, valuable insights and spectacular portraits,
done on FILM, a Hasselblad, 150mm. Yup!
These are his absolute best..
Lighting a valuable part of his blog.His books well worth owning.
Suggest you all follow.
Kirk Tuck did a very good review of the Leica M6 and Leica lenses
on "Photo.net." Naturally K.T. has moved on numerous times..
I enjoy it BUT..Kirk goes thru equipment,
new brands, systems, lenses and choices
faster than a speeding bullet.
Kirk has good thought, valuable insights and spectacular portraits,
done on FILM, a Hasselblad, 150mm. Yup!
These are his absolute best..
Lighting a valuable part of his blog.His books well worth owning.
Suggest you all follow.
Kirk Tuck did a very good review of the Leica M6 and Leica lenses
on "Photo.net." Naturally K.T. has moved on numerous times..
Charlie Lemay
Well-known
I'm a gear head and an artist. I am a serious Pphotophop user and use digital and film cameras, with a preference for film. Non of these tendencies are mutually exclusive, they enrich the experience. I don't know why some people insist there can be only one way. I really liked Kirk's article, but I have learned in life that when anyone presents you with an either/or scenario, you are being manipulated (think liberal/conservative, believer/nonbeliever). Things are much more nuanced in reality, but it can be a useful way to make a point, as it is here. No analogy is perfect, but some truth can usually be gleaned from it. I think that is the point, to allow some new information in, which doesn't tend to happen when we've got everything figured out.