Huck Finn
Well-known
Brian & Russ, forget about shooting wide open for the moment. Jamie talked about shooting "massive mountain landscapes" on hiking trips as his primary use for this camera. I don't think he's going to be doing this at f/1.7.
What's the downside of the Canonet . . . for his intended use? I think that other factors come into play more than sharpness wide open, i.e. size, weight, ease of use, VF, etc. I don't have the other cameras you mention, so I'm not in a position to make a judgment.
Russ, I think that the "poor man's Leica" aphorism must be referring to Bokeh. At least, that's what the Leica people say when someone finds another lens sharper than theirs. . .. Just kiddding. LOL
What's the downside of the Canonet . . . for his intended use? I think that other factors come into play more than sharpness wide open, i.e. size, weight, ease of use, VF, etc. I don't have the other cameras you mention, so I'm not in a position to make a judgment.
Russ, I think that the "poor man's Leica" aphorism must be referring to Bokeh. At least, that's what the Leica people say when someone finds another lens sharper than theirs. . .. Just kiddding. LOL
>* Aperture priority exposure
>* Manual mode for when the battery freezes high on a mountain
>* Reasonably small
>* Nice fast lens; preferably between 30mm and 50mm, and sub-f/2
>* Simple enough that it's hard to break and easy to fix
>* Cheap enough that I don't get upset when I drop it down a crevasse/leave it on a bus
Russ: Note that these shots are from the Konica S2, which is the full size 1960's camera. The Konica S3 (Which I also have) is the compact camera with the 38mm F1.8 lens, equivalent to the Vivitar and Minolta.
For Mountain Climbing? Based on the desire for a lens faster than F2, reasonable size, and CHEAP, The Konica S2 is still worth looking at. It is going for 1/3 the price of a Canonet on EBay, as are the Himatic 7s and 9 and other "classic RF's". The compacts, Canonet QL17, Konica S3, Minolta Hi-Matic 7s-II go for their original sale price and more!
>* Manual mode for when the battery freezes high on a mountain
>* Reasonably small
>* Nice fast lens; preferably between 30mm and 50mm, and sub-f/2
>* Simple enough that it's hard to break and easy to fix
>* Cheap enough that I don't get upset when I drop it down a crevasse/leave it on a bus
Russ: Note that these shots are from the Konica S2, which is the full size 1960's camera. The Konica S3 (Which I also have) is the compact camera with the 38mm F1.8 lens, equivalent to the Vivitar and Minolta.
For Mountain Climbing? Based on the desire for a lens faster than F2, reasonable size, and CHEAP, The Konica S2 is still worth looking at. It is going for 1/3 the price of a Canonet on EBay, as are the Himatic 7s and 9 and other "classic RF's". The compacts, Canonet QL17, Konica S3, Minolta Hi-Matic 7s-II go for their original sale price and more!
These will give you an idea of the size of the cameras.
And I seem to recall that a very famous mountain climber in the '50s used to take his Retina IIIc with him. Very sharp F2 lens, folds up, and NO batteries to worry about. A good Selenium lasts forever! ~$75 will get you a good one in user condition. THIS was the original "poor Man's Leica".
Huck Finn
Well-known
Thanks, Brian. I forgot about the request for a fast lens. I learned a few things from your report.
peter_n
Veteran
I'm feeling that I'm in that psychological experiment - the one about the shorter and longer lines on the blackboard?
To me, Brian's Canonet scans look sharper than the Konica ones...
To me, Brian's Canonet scans look sharper than the Konica ones...
jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
Good grief; didn't mean to cause all this trouble ;-)
Thanks again for all the advice. I'm starting to wonder if I actually need* two; one with a nice fast lens for street shooting, and another for mountains. But then I'd never need my SLR...
Off on a week-long school trip with little hope for interent access tomorrow morning, so I'll look in again next Saturday!
Cheers,
Jamie
Thanks again for all the advice. I'm starting to wonder if I actually need* two; one with a nice fast lens for street shooting, and another for mountains. But then I'd never need my SLR...
Off on a week-long school trip with little hope for interent access tomorrow morning, so I'll look in again next Saturday!
Cheers,
Jamie
jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
* Well, we could consider the meaning of 'need' all day long...
Jamie
Jamie
Jamie, NO TROUBLE! We are always like this!
If you ask me what the best all-around fixed-lens RF is, I would say the Canonet. Size, shutter release, exposure, build quality are all important factors.
The S2 seems to have a sharper lens.
Peter: The Canonet shots are at F4, the Konica at F1.8. At F4 the Canonet is quite good, but at F1.7 the Konica is sharper. Remember at F4 there is a lot more in the Photo in focus. At F1.8, in the Crayola Shirt shot, "That Hair" really stands out. Similar shots with the Canonet (and Hi-Matic E) do not define the hair as well.
Googled this:
Sir Edmund Hillary's Kodak Retina that went up on Everest
Kodak ran a later ad showing him using a Kodak Retina IIIc.
If you ask me what the best all-around fixed-lens RF is, I would say the Canonet. Size, shutter release, exposure, build quality are all important factors.
The S2 seems to have a sharper lens.
Peter: The Canonet shots are at F4, the Konica at F1.8. At F4 the Canonet is quite good, but at F1.7 the Konica is sharper. Remember at F4 there is a lot more in the Photo in focus. At F1.8, in the Crayola Shirt shot, "That Hair" really stands out. Similar shots with the Canonet (and Hi-Matic E) do not define the hair as well.
Googled this:
Sir Edmund Hillary's Kodak Retina that went up on Everest
Kodak ran a later ad showing him using a Kodak Retina IIIc.
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FrankS
Registered User
Another famous mountaineering camera is the Rollei 35 in its many incarnations, but it lacks exposure automation and rangefinder.
Russ
Well-known
Brian
Are you a climber too. Do you think that Hillary was the first to top out on Everest?
Russ
Are you a climber too. Do you think that Hillary was the first to top out on Everest?
Russ
jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
Russ,
I personally doubt that Hillary & Tenzing (in whichever order) were first to top out. It seems more than likely to me that Mallory, and perhaps Irvine too, made it up. But climbing a mountain involves getting back down, too, so H&T undoubtedly made 'the first ascent'.
Incidentally, we (as in the OUMC) still have the logbooks and accounts from back then, with a particularly moving crossing out of the name of A. C. Irvine and the pencilled-in words 'killed on Everest'.
Jamie
I personally doubt that Hillary & Tenzing (in whichever order) were first to top out. It seems more than likely to me that Mallory, and perhaps Irvine too, made it up. But climbing a mountain involves getting back down, too, so H&T undoubtedly made 'the first ascent'.
Incidentally, we (as in the OUMC) still have the logbooks and accounts from back then, with a particularly moving crossing out of the name of A. C. Irvine and the pencilled-in words 'killed on Everest'.
Jamie
peter_n
Veteran
Dear oh dear! Got up late and only decaffeinated coffee in the house... Oh well.Brian Sweeney said:
Russ, no I am not a climber, just a Retina User. The closest that I got was going up some shaky camera platforms for taking school Football films.
I do not know who made it up first, but I will bet that Sir Hillary was the First up with a Kodak Retina Camera! Thinking about using a camera with thick gloves on, I would guess that those big knob wind and rewind of the old Retina's made it more tangible.
I do not know who made it up first, but I will bet that Sir Hillary was the First up with a Kodak Retina Camera! Thinking about using a camera with thick gloves on, I would guess that those big knob wind and rewind of the old Retina's made it more tangible.
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