B-9
Devin Bro
Doooooo it!
Then gloat to me about how nice it is here!
I noticed ebay has leatherette kits for the wide models. Fire Red included!
YOLO 😉
Recommend a MF Camera. Criteria Inside.
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Doooooo it!
Then gloat to me about how nice it is here!
I noticed ebay has leatherette kits for the wide models. Fire Red included!
YOLO 😉
punkzter
Established
If you haven't looked at it yet, the Arax 60 is worth your consideration. It's an upgraded Kiev 60, so you get the great camera and access to lenses without the headaches that can come with the Kiev 60. I have 3 MF cameras: Arax 60, Agfa Isolette III (a folder, but maybe one you should consider, I really like mine), and a Minolta Autocord TLR. The Arax 60 is just a fun camera to use, and if I need something portable, I use the Agfa.
There is plenty about the Agfa that doesn't meet your criteria. It's a folder and it's an uncoupled rangefinder. I only mention it because it's what I use. Still....it's a fun camera to use 🙂
All are 6x6. Since my enlarger doesn't go larger than that, it's a nice format for me to be in. It might be something to consider if you ever think you'll venture into darkroom printing.
There is plenty about the Agfa that doesn't meet your criteria. It's a folder and it's an uncoupled rangefinder. I only mention it because it's what I use. Still....it's a fun camera to use 🙂
All are 6x6. Since my enlarger doesn't go larger than that, it's a nice format for me to be in. It might be something to consider if you ever think you'll venture into darkroom printing.
B-9
Devin Bro
After reviewing all the comments I think I have narrowed it down to two.
Mamiya 645 (Super/Pro)
Or
Fuji GW690
With an emphasis on the 690.
Thanks everyone! Feel free to keep adding to the list we haven’t got em all yet!
Mamiya 645 (Super/Pro)
Or
Fuji GW690
With an emphasis on the 690.
Thanks everyone! Feel free to keep adding to the list we haven’t got em all yet!
Nokton48
Veteran
If I bought a M645 I would want the 80mm F1.9
Fuji doesn't have that
Fuji doesn't have that
markjwyatt
Well-known
B-9
Devin Bro
Mark, let’s both save up and grab one! Now where are the buddy pack deals!?
css9450
Veteran
Time for a group buy, perhaps! I've been sort of thinking that if I decide I need another MF camera, it needs to be 6x9. I have enough square-format cameras already!
taomei
Established
Bronica SQ-AI is a cheap budget option for a Hasselblad style 6x6 with great cheap lenses available, often within your $600 budget for a 2 lens kit.
Otherwise you could find the older Fuji 6x7's and 6x8 / 6x9's (the GW690ii for example) sometimes under $600 also, but they are kind of huge.
For TLR bang for buck the Yashicamats are hard to beat since they are also so portable, and for more flexibility for macros / portraits, the Mamiya TLRs like the C330 should be within that budget.
Otherwise you could find the older Fuji 6x7's and 6x8 / 6x9's (the GW690ii for example) sometimes under $600 also, but they are kind of huge.
For TLR bang for buck the Yashicamats are hard to beat since they are also so portable, and for more flexibility for macros / portraits, the Mamiya TLRs like the C330 should be within that budget.
oftheherd
Veteran
I believe you. I had on on lay-a-way in Korea before I got a good deal on a Super Press 23. It also has a bellows, on the front, allowing close focusing. Like my Super Press, if is a little heave as I recall.
B-9
Devin Bro
It could be said that for 600$
If your looking for the P&S experience in MF patience will find a GA645
If your looking for negative real estate you can find a GW690
If your looking for a system camera Mamiya 645 Pro/Pro TL is the one
If your looking for the P&S experience in MF patience will find a GA645
If your looking for negative real estate you can find a GW690
If your looking for a system camera Mamiya 645 Pro/Pro TL is the one
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Evil people on this forum.
I bought one, at a very low price out of Japan. Just the camera and lens cap, nothing else. It arrived a few days ago and is absolutely beautiful condition cosmetically and in most ways functionally (everything works beautifully, except I found a minor problem with the rangefinder—it's sticky. So I'll have it serviced before I start putting it to work.
Handling the GS645S Wide 60 brings back a ton of great memories of when I had one before. It's kind of like a Leica M6 with a 35 or 40mm lens on it, but with a negative that's almost 3x larger. Same wide-open DoF character as a 35mm f/2 wide open.
I suspect this camera will get a lot of use, which is why it's worth putting the extra money into giving it a complete CLA/overhaul. It will then have cost me the average market rate I find on Ebay for them, but I'll know that it has no problems at all. 😀
onwards, G
B-9
Devin Bro
Great news G!
Sounds like a good deal and with the CLA a shooter for many years to come!
I have been drawn into the Super Fujica 6 folding 6x6... lol it’s basically the opposite of all my criteria. It’s a beautiful camera and I like beautiful things like most anyone. I just have a real fear of getting that deep into a folder after a few bad experiences. BUT they are cheap enough that I could basically buy on right now with what I have saved already.
Better order that Fire Red leather kit before your kit gets back! 😀
Sounds like a good deal and with the CLA a shooter for many years to come!
I have been drawn into the Super Fujica 6 folding 6x6... lol it’s basically the opposite of all my criteria. It’s a beautiful camera and I like beautiful things like most anyone. I just have a real fear of getting that deep into a folder after a few bad experiences. BUT they are cheap enough that I could basically buy on right now with what I have saved already.
Better order that Fire Red leather kit before your kit gets back! 😀
Huss
Veteran
I have owned a full 645ProTL kit with a bunch o lenses/prisms, drives etc and the Fuji GW690III.
I sold the Mam, kept the Fuji. To be fair I replaced the Mam with a Hassie H1 system, because the VF is so much larger and brighter on the H1. I found the Mam dark and kinda hard to focus. I also had the famed 80 1.9 lens, but guess what? They are notorious for outgassing hazing. Abd my perfect one that I paid big bux for did just that! And couldn't be repaired as the hazing occurs between the glued elements.
None of my other Mam 645 lenses did that.
The Fuji 690iii is great, crackin lens and killer negs. One thing to be very careful about is fat rolls i.e. film rolls that end up loosely wound. You have to be very careful to maintain tension on the film as you load it and close the back. This is the only MF camera that I have had this happen with, and it has happened a few times. One tip is when you shoot the last image on the roll, immediately complete the wind on and remove the film from the camera. Having it sit in the camera on the spool increases the chance of loosening on the spool and fat rolling.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
LOL! No intent on changing the leather for me. I kinda like my cameras to be somewhat plain looking. 🙂
Oh yes: I looked in my miscellaneous bits drawer and found two nice metal lens hoods that should work fine on it: a B+W "wide" metal hood that might be a little too tight, and an Olympus hood for their 28 that will be a little wider than needed but will certainly not vignette.
Super Fujica 6 :: That's kinda like a Fuji version of my 1952ish Voigtländer Perkeo II. I've had the Perkeo II a long time, had it overhauled to work perfectly too.
It's a great camera. I have a Voigtländer rangefinder accessory and a clip on meter for it too. 🙂
What I love about the GS645S is that it has a built in meter and the FoV is wider. It's a little easier to use overall, particularly loading.
I love these old medium format cameras. There's something truly charming about them that later cameras seem to be missing.
G
Beemermark
Veteran
I've owned about everything mentioned in these posts and I agree your choice of the Mamiya's or Fuji is probably your best bet. The Mamiya 645 advantage over the Fuji GW690 is interchangeable lenses, better metering with the proper prism and you can assemble 2 or 3 lenses, prism, and body for about the same price as the Fuji. The Fuji gives a much bigger format and has (maybe) a nicer lens.
markbakovic
Member
Hey Devin, how about the Mamiya 645 1000s (does anyone still sell the 1/500th-limited non-s?) option? Lens info relevant to Super/Pro too, but my A$0.02:
I'd love a 80/1.9 too but the two 80/2.8s that I had were both fine standard lenses, the N versions are "newer" plasticky feeling ones with generally cheaper helicoids I think, they match the later 80s cameras (Pro/Super) visually, optically there is debate about whether they changed (if so only coatings): had one of those and one of the older "Sekor C" ones - go the old school. Most people who get the 1.9 seem to have buyers remorse or, at best "it's better than my 2.8 but not by enough".
An alternative might be the 55mm (I have an N version, not sure if there was a 70s original), which I find quite capable. Since giving away my 80 on my spare body (wedding 'tog payment!) it's been my usual lens, and I'm happy with its handling, view, and negatives. In fact I think my favourite 645 shots were from that lens. It's a bit longer but not much heavier (if at all) than the 80, and mine was a good deal cheaper at the time.
For metered prism finders, the PD finder seems the one to get, and mine is plenty accurate, pattern I like etc. Bit on the bulky side and can be hard to find for less than the camera+lens from time to time though! Plain finder's sleek enough to stick in a consumer-grade camcorder pouch, and not that dim (though I've never Hasselbled to compare). There exists a waist level finder if you want the TLR feels but they're rare, though suuuper slim/light (wow, a few metal flaps and springs fold flat? amazing! 🙄). No idea how this compares to the later cameras, but the plain prism is definitely lower profile than the Pro style.
Finally: the strap mushrooms are not Hassy sized, but I recently learned they are (allegedly) Pentax (6x7 & 67) sized - confirmation anyone? Ebay knows only of the latter 😉. Again, might have changed later, I doubt it.
You don't even want to change lenses, do you really need interchangeable film backs? The old cameras are tough as...
Oh, and an afterthought: they're very tinkerable to my eyes: I think I've found a service manual somewhere online (never used it) and things like the focus screen height, prism standoff etc. are all obvious and doable with minimal disassembly. Mine was a school photographer's workhorse and that makes sense looking at how it's built. Magazine seals might well be an issue as mentioned (they were on my spare body) but 10 minutes with a foam strip kit off the 'bay sorts it.
Not light but.
I'd love a 80/1.9 too but the two 80/2.8s that I had were both fine standard lenses, the N versions are "newer" plasticky feeling ones with generally cheaper helicoids I think, they match the later 80s cameras (Pro/Super) visually, optically there is debate about whether they changed (if so only coatings): had one of those and one of the older "Sekor C" ones - go the old school. Most people who get the 1.9 seem to have buyers remorse or, at best "it's better than my 2.8 but not by enough".
An alternative might be the 55mm (I have an N version, not sure if there was a 70s original), which I find quite capable. Since giving away my 80 on my spare body (wedding 'tog payment!) it's been my usual lens, and I'm happy with its handling, view, and negatives. In fact I think my favourite 645 shots were from that lens. It's a bit longer but not much heavier (if at all) than the 80, and mine was a good deal cheaper at the time.
For metered prism finders, the PD finder seems the one to get, and mine is plenty accurate, pattern I like etc. Bit on the bulky side and can be hard to find for less than the camera+lens from time to time though! Plain finder's sleek enough to stick in a consumer-grade camcorder pouch, and not that dim (though I've never Hasselbled to compare). There exists a waist level finder if you want the TLR feels but they're rare, though suuuper slim/light (wow, a few metal flaps and springs fold flat? amazing! 🙄). No idea how this compares to the later cameras, but the plain prism is definitely lower profile than the Pro style.
Finally: the strap mushrooms are not Hassy sized, but I recently learned they are (allegedly) Pentax (6x7 & 67) sized - confirmation anyone? Ebay knows only of the latter 😉. Again, might have changed later, I doubt it.
You don't even want to change lenses, do you really need interchangeable film backs? The old cameras are tough as...
Oh, and an afterthought: they're very tinkerable to my eyes: I think I've found a service manual somewhere online (never used it) and things like the focus screen height, prism standoff etc. are all obvious and doable with minimal disassembly. Mine was a school photographer's workhorse and that makes sense looking at how it's built. Magazine seals might well be an issue as mentioned (they were on my spare body) but 10 minutes with a foam strip kit off the 'bay sorts it.
Not light but.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Rolleiflex T with the 75mm Tessar is a really nice camera, and not too expensive.
FujiLove
Well-known
When you start shooting medium format, you soon realise there are no ‘perfect’ cameras. Every one forces you to compromise in at least one way: cost, weight, size, build quality, close focus, lens quality etc. It’s much easier for the average photographer who only shoots MF to own two systems: a portable travel kit (or you could think of this as the casual photography kit) and a ‘flexible’ kit. The portable camera could be something like a Fuji GA645 - light, small, built in meter, fixed lens, fast and easy to use. The flexible one could be an SLR such as a RZ67 or Hasselblad V series camera. Much more flexible, with a wide selection of lenses and accessories enabling practically any type of photography, but much heavier, bulkier and expensive, when you have put a full kit together. I’m not saying that you can’t travel with a RZ67 on your back-many people have, but you’re making life hard for yourself! Better to keep that kit at home for portraits, still life etc. or throw it in a car and only lug it short distances for carefully composed landscapes.
You can tie yourself in knots trying to find one perfect MF camera. Better not to try 🙂
You can tie yourself in knots trying to find one perfect MF camera. Better not to try 🙂
Godfrey
somewhat colored
An update on my "new" Fuji GS645S Wide 60:
I sent the one I purchased (cheap) from Japan to Frank Marshman on March 8 for examination and service. Two days ago, I received a note back from him that he'd been through the whole camera, found it basically sound, cleaned everything, lubed the rangefinder and calibrated it for accuracy, same for the shutter, etc etc, and it is ready to send back.
I Paypal'ed him the pittance he asked for, it's now on the way back to me.
I can't wait for it to arrive, and to go out and play with it! 😀
I'll post pics of it soon as it arrives back so I can satisfy B-9's desire for me to gloat about it... LOL!
G
I sent the one I purchased (cheap) from Japan to Frank Marshman on March 8 for examination and service. Two days ago, I received a note back from him that he'd been through the whole camera, found it basically sound, cleaned everything, lubed the rangefinder and calibrated it for accuracy, same for the shutter, etc etc, and it is ready to send back.
I Paypal'ed him the pittance he asked for, it's now on the way back to me.
I can't wait for it to arrive, and to go out and play with it! 😀
I'll post pics of it soon as it arrives back so I can satisfy B-9's desire for me to gloat about it... LOL!
G
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