Recommend me a reliable 120 folder with a BAD lens!

[Steveh]

Hi all - very long time no post on RFF but I couldn’t think of a better place for this one so I hope someone can be kind enough to help me!

I’m working on a project that needs a blurry, quirky look for aesthetic reasons, but better quality than Holga/Diana level and able to be enlarged to large sizes for exhibition purposes. I want to shoot film but my only two MF cameras are too “good” in terms of quality so I need a new camera 😁. The project also involves lots of walking so I want something light and portable. Consistency of look is important so whatever I go with needs to be reliable/repairable/easily replaced with the same model.

All of that seems to point to a 6x6 or 6x9 folder of some kind but I know almost nothing about them - I’m probably looking at one with a basic (meniscus? Three element?) lens as I would think Zeiss/Voigtlander etc. are too good. Can anyone suggest some options?

The work will mainly be outdoors in ok light so I could live without lots of shutter speeds. RF focusing nice as I do want something in focus, just lots of nice falloff/aberrations etc to go with it. Budget up to say $300 but ideally less.

Thanks in advance!

 

[wlewisiii]

Try to find one of these: Kodak No 2 Hawkette

 

[santino]

Maybe some sort of diffusing/vignetting filter for the cameras you already have?

 

[Vince Lupo]

Could it be a 120 box camera? Lots of them out there with precisely the kind of lens you’re wanting, plus they’re really light and fairly portable.

Another one that comes to mind is a Brownie Cresta 3.

Sounds like you’re looking for a ‘basic’ camera — I think you’d be hard-pressed to find one that has built-in rangefinder focusing, but I could be wrong.

 

[wlewisiii]

Thinking about it some more, I'd actually suggest one of the early Nettars. Those were Zeiss' cameras for amateurs and were decent but not at the same level as the more famous Ikontas. Look for a Nettar 515/2 with the 10.5cm f/6.3 Nettar-Anastigmat 3 element lens. Try to find the Klio shutter too - it's usually in decent condition at this point while not bringing a high price from collectors. Those simple Anastigmat lenses can still be very good so if it's still too good for your needs, try the old soft focus trick of a little petroleum jelly on the outside edge of the lens to soften the image away from the center of focus.

 

[Steveh]

Thanks all - will look into all of these but keep ‘em coming! Vince a box camera may be a bit too basic but I need to do some more research. The Nettar sounds like it may be in the kind of sweet spot I’m after which is really decent functionality but with a lens that is less clinically sharp and has more quirks than the ones on my Rollei/Bronica. A bit of a tangent but are there cheap TLRs that do something similar (Seagull?). I’m probably looking at something mass market from the 40s or 50s I guess?

 

[wlewisiii]

Seagull would not meet your "reliable" requirement 😉 But, yeah, mass market cameras from the 30s through the 50's would be what you're looking for. I really think one of the various Nettars would do the trick well for you.

 

[Steveh]

Seagull would not meet your "reliable" requirement 😉 But, yeah, mass market cameras from the 30s through the 50's would be what you're looking for. I really think one of the various Nettars would do the trick well for you.

Thank you! Really appreciated - will have a look.

 

[Coldkennels]

What about a Lubitel?


Untitled by Tony Gale, on Flickr

They're about as cheap as a TLR can go (as long as you avoid the overpriced 166+ from Lomography), and I always thought they were full of character; surprisingly sharp in the centre at all apertures, but wide-open you get a hint of swirl in the background, vignetting, and a real drop-off in sharpness at the edges. Couple it with the right film and you're probably on a winner.

Plus you get the benefit of actual focusing, even if it is on the tiniest patch of ground glass in centre of the "brilliant" finder. Still probably easier to use than some of the early rangefinders in the basic folders, though!

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I second the box camera idea. A Zeiss box Tengor would do nicely. You have a few apertures to choose from, a couple shutter speeds, and the lens is actually pretty decent, but certainly not good.
Phil Forrest

 

[Kai-san]

Talking about basic 120 cameras, how about the Agfa Isola 1? It's compact and light for a 6x6, it's cheap and there are quite a few of them for sale at any time. Very limited choice of shutter speeds, 1/35s + B. You can choose between f11 and f16 plus a built-in yellow filter. Zone focusing, just remember to pull out the retractable lens before shooting.

Lomography

 

[Steveh]

What about a Lubitel?


Untitled by Tony Gale, on Flickr

They're about as cheap as a TLR can go (as long as you avoid the overpriced 166+ from Lomography), and I always thought they were full of character; surprisingly sharp in the centre at all apertures, but wide-open you get a hint of swirl in the background, vignetting, and a real drop-off in sharpness at the edges. Couple it with the right film and you're probably on a winner.

Plus you get the benefit of actual focusing, even if it is on the tiniest patch of ground glass in centre of the "brilliant" finder. Still probably easier to use than some of the early rangefinders in the basic folders, though!

Thanks Tony - yes this is exactly the kind of look I have in mind so will check Lubitels out. For those who have suggested box cameras etc. do they do something similar? I’m making a list of everyone’s suggestions for homework tonight!

 

[wlewisiii]

Box cameras can do similar but you'd be better off with something like the Lubitel or Nettar in my experience. The boxes are just _too_ limited. One or two apertures and one shutter speed usually and worthless in all but the best light with fairly fast film. This is not to say you can't do interesting work with them but it may make it harder than it needs to be to get the results I think you're looking for.

 

[santino]

Box cameras usually have a meniscus lens and only a few controls. The Lubitel 2 e.g. is a „real“ camera with all controls and a „decent“ lens. It creates rather artsy images and maybe just right for you, tape up the back because it will easily pop open and expose your film to the sun.

 

[Steveh]

Thanks guys - yes I think a “real” camera is the way forward and “artsy” is what I’m after! There’s a Lubitel 166b with a UK dealer for £132 which may be worth a punt. Will take a look at Flickr as well.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Lubitel sounds like a good idea - hadn’t considered that one.

 

[KoNickon]

I find the Nettars take surprisingly good pictures, so don't be disappointed if the pictures are TOO sharp. You may want to keep your pictures at maximum aperture, where the picture quality will be lowest. You may want to do something like applying some petroleum jelly to the front element also.

 

[Coldkennels]

Thanks guys - yes I think a “real” camera is the way forward and “artsy” is what I’m after! There’s a Lubitel 166b with a UK dealer for £132 which may be worth a punt. Will take a look at Flickr as well.

That's too expensive!

Admittedly, I bought my Lubitel 2 back in 2010, but it was £10 then. Even the 166b shouldn't be in the triple digits.

They're not common at dealers presumably because they've always been quite cheap, but a quick skim of eBay shows you should be able to get one for about £50. There's not a lot to go wrong with a Lubitel, either - as long as the lens isn't raddled with fungus, you're probably okay. Just try to make sure you get the lens cap if you can, as it's probably more expensive to buy one separately than it is to just buy another camera!

 

[Steveh]

So.... not being one to hang around I've just bought a nice condition, freshly serviced Nettar 515/2 from a UK Etsy seller. Thanks to everyone for the tips! Lubitel is next if this one doesn't do what I'm after, but a couple of descriptions of how fiddly it is to use put me off a bit. Now to figure out how to zone focus a 6x9 camera! I will post some samples if I get anything decent out of it..

Thanks again to everyone who chipped in - great to see that RFF is still the great place I remember.

 

[Coldkennels]

So.... not being one to hang around I've just bought a nice condition, freshly serviced Nettar 515/2 from a UK Etsy seller. Thanks to everyone for the tips! Lubitel is next if this one doesn't do what I'm after, but a couple of descriptions of how fiddly it is to use put me off a bit. Now to figure out how to zone focus a 6x9 camera! I will post some samples if I get anything decent out of it..

"Fiddly" is a matter of perspective! I'd say a Lubitel is no more fiddly than the Nettar, and the only real issue with regards to UX is the aforementioned tiny ground glass spot for focusing. You get used to it fast enough, though.

It might be worth tracking down an external rangefinder if you're going to stick with the Nettar; if it's marked in meters, a BLIK used to be a very cheap option in that regard. If it's marked in feet, I'm not sure what the cheapest/best option would be. You could always convert the reading from the BLIK to feet if you can multiply things by 3.3 in your head...