Assaf
Well-known
Hi there,
after reading about the photographer and seeing his name popping in many RF/street photography/etc. contexts I really want to see his work (and feel a bit ashamed for not knowing it already).
The only book I saw availables is "the man in the crowd", would you recommend it? Any other recommendations?
Thanks
Assaf
after reading about the photographer and seeing his name popping in many RF/street photography/etc. contexts I really want to see his work (and feel a bit ashamed for not knowing it already).
The only book I saw availables is "the man in the crowd", would you recommend it? Any other recommendations?
Thanks
Assaf
OOF
Out Of Focus
"Winogrand: Figments from the real world" by John Szarkowski does show some stuff developed after de decease of G. Winogrand. I bought it yesterday. It's the only book about him I have.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I have Man in the Crowd and think it's really good. Lots of work from his New York period. Good stuff.
Also take a look at:
Winogrand: Figments From The Real World
Covers all periods of his work.
http://www.amazon.com/Winogrand-Figments-World-John-Szarkowski/dp/0870706357
Also take a look at:
Winogrand: Figments From The Real World
Covers all periods of his work.
http://www.amazon.com/Winogrand-Figments-World-John-Szarkowski/dp/0870706357
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mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
I have, for myself, found it sometimes difficult to understand Winogrand and to understand some or even most of his photography.
Just recently, I've decided that I don't even have to like his photographs to like his point of view. However (just to mix things up) I like plenty of his photos, and I'm not completely sure of his point of view.
My view on this is to take a possibly dim-witted and simplistic approach to his struggle between photographer and subject:
If the primary reason for liking the photograph is the subject, then the subject has "won" and the photographer (ie. me) has lost;
If the photograph shows the subject in a substantially better context than it would have appeared in a "straight, for the record" shot then the photographer has "won".
Winogrand seems to have seen photography as this contest. I don't think I'm a good enough photographer to pick that fight - the subject would win too often! Especially so in the wildlife photography that I love, but which I think most likely would have driven Winogrand spare.
In this day and age, IMO, that's best done with a dSLR and a very long lens. And, also, why I don't show those photos much at all around here. Its a mode of photography that's most unsuited to RF cameras and seems entirely antethical to Winogrand's approach. (I enjoy it, and I think RFF has taught me a few things that help in this most foreign of photographic worlds.)
And yet I try to like and understand Winogrand. I think I make progress, but I'm not taking this seriously enough that I'd die in a ditch over the probable outcome. Mostly because I can calculate that probable outcome
...Mike
Just recently, I've decided that I don't even have to like his photographs to like his point of view. However (just to mix things up) I like plenty of his photos, and I'm not completely sure of his point of view.
My view on this is to take a possibly dim-witted and simplistic approach to his struggle between photographer and subject:
If the primary reason for liking the photograph is the subject, then the subject has "won" and the photographer (ie. me) has lost;
If the photograph shows the subject in a substantially better context than it would have appeared in a "straight, for the record" shot then the photographer has "won".
Winogrand seems to have seen photography as this contest. I don't think I'm a good enough photographer to pick that fight - the subject would win too often! Especially so in the wildlife photography that I love, but which I think most likely would have driven Winogrand spare.
In this day and age, IMO, that's best done with a dSLR and a very long lens. And, also, why I don't show those photos much at all around here. Its a mode of photography that's most unsuited to RF cameras and seems entirely antethical to Winogrand's approach. (I enjoy it, and I think RFF has taught me a few things that help in this most foreign of photographic worlds.)
And yet I try to like and understand Winogrand. I think I make progress, but I'm not taking this seriously enough that I'd die in a ditch over the probable outcome. Mostly because I can calculate that probable outcome
...Mike
pesphoto
Veteran
I'd start with "Figments" for sure. Great essay on Winogrand as well in there.
victoriapio
Well-known
mfunnell said:I have, for myself, found it sometimes difficult to understand Winogrand and to understand some or even most of his photography.
Just recently, I've decided that I don't even have to like his photographs to like his point of view. However (just to mix things up) I like plenty of his photos, and I'm not completely sure of his point of view.
SNIP...
And yet I try to like and understand Winogrand. I think I make progress, but I'm not taking this seriously enough that I'd die in a ditch over the probable outcome. Mostly because I can calculate that probable outcome
...Mike
Mike,
I would recommend two things to try to HELP understand Winogrand:
First go to my Web site http://www.ocgarzaphotography.com and read the essay I posted recently about him. (It's at the top of my Web page: Class Time with Garry Winogrand.) You don't have to read my essay but in it are two links that might help you. Near the beginning of the essay, when you get to the link about Winogrand's video interview with Bill Moyer - click to it and watch it. What Winogrand says in that interview is a succinct and condensed version of his vision of photography. It is understandable and concise. Watch it over again a few times and it will really sink in. That video is the best "Photography 101 by Garry Winogrand" anyone can watch.
Second, farther down in the essay when you get to the link to Resnick's story about Winogrand - click it too and read that. That will help understand Winogrand's vision through the eyes of a very good, experienced photographer.
Let me add that you are not the only photographer that has a hard time understanding Winogrand's vision. I was fortunate to take his art photography course for four semesters and it took that long for his view of photography to sink in (that I even remember it after 30 years is a small indicator of how profound his vision is). In the end, I have come to the conclusion that Winogrand was right about almost every one of his concepts - as HE applied them to HIS photography.
Hope this helps,
O.C. Garza
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victoriapio
Well-known
Assaf said:
Assaf,
See if you can find a copy of the small and early book he did called "Animals." It is my favorite book of his. Literally every image in "Animals" is a great example of Winogrand's photographic talent. I thought it had been re-released so it might be available. (Check the Museum of Modern Art Web site store.) (If you want an autographed copy of "Animals" send me a new, unopened Leica M8 and it is yours
) I also have "Public Relations" - which is pretty good - again in my opinion - but no where as consistant. "Women are Beautiful" is his weakest book in my opinion. His book "Photographs from the Fort Worth Stock Show" is pretty good too and can be found cheap in some used book stores.
O.C.
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
victoriapio said:
It has helped, and I thank you a lot for posting it. Earlier (which I did see) and in the future when I go back to it (as I'm sure I will).
I find it informative, to a point. But I also suspect that I probably need to learn a few things before going back to it again, and I also suspect that in the end I probably can't go down that path. Not that its a wrong path, but I don't think its the path for me. But let me go back after a while...
...Mike
gns
Well-known
Assaf,
The 4 titles that victoriapio mentions above are the only books done by Winogrand, and should be recommended on that point alone. Of those, "The Animals" and "Public Relations" have been reissued and should be available at a reasonable price. The women and the Rodeo books are scarce/expensive.
Public Relations has a good essay by Tod Papageorge. Another good essay was written by Leo Rubenfien for (I think) Art Forum magazine in the seventies. It was called "The Man in the Crowd". It was reprinted in a compilation of essays on photography, but I will have to look up that title.
Of the posthumously created books, my favorite is "The Man in the Crowd" because it concentrates on a lot of the great street work he is best known for. Note: the title was lifted from the Rubenfien essay, but the essay itself is not reprinted in this book.
Cheers,
Gary
edit: The book with the reprint of the Rubenfien essay is called "Photgraphy in Print" by Vicki Goldberg.
Also just came across an interesting article while searching for the essay. It's about a symposium and show on Winogrand at the Tucson Center for Creative Photography... http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-82748725.html
The 4 titles that victoriapio mentions above are the only books done by Winogrand, and should be recommended on that point alone. Of those, "The Animals" and "Public Relations" have been reissued and should be available at a reasonable price. The women and the Rodeo books are scarce/expensive.
Public Relations has a good essay by Tod Papageorge. Another good essay was written by Leo Rubenfien for (I think) Art Forum magazine in the seventies. It was called "The Man in the Crowd". It was reprinted in a compilation of essays on photography, but I will have to look up that title.
Of the posthumously created books, my favorite is "The Man in the Crowd" because it concentrates on a lot of the great street work he is best known for. Note: the title was lifted from the Rubenfien essay, but the essay itself is not reprinted in this book.
Cheers,
Gary
edit: The book with the reprint of the Rubenfien essay is called "Photgraphy in Print" by Vicki Goldberg.
Also just came across an interesting article while searching for the essay. It's about a symposium and show on Winogrand at the Tucson Center for Creative Photography... http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-82748725.html
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gumanow
Snapshooter
Have to say, Man in the Crowd, and Public Relations, are my favorite. The Bill Moyer interview is also fantastic. I watch that video on a weekly basis. At the end, you see GW walking down the street, he nods to the video camera, as if to say, I see you, good to see you. It almost always chokes me up, since this is the last footage we have from him.
Anyone else feel this way about that video?
Anyone else feel this way about that video?
Assaf
Well-known
Many thanks!
Your answers gave me a good survey of Winograd's book.
I'll try to get at least one of them. Unfortunately, it seems that most of them are out of print. Any recommendations for used books stores that might have them?
O.C. thanks for your essay, I printed it and going to read it. The TV interview is very inspiring. I'll definitely watch it again.
BTW, what do you say about "Arrivals & Departures"?
Your answers gave me a good survey of Winograd's book.
I'll try to get at least one of them. Unfortunately, it seems that most of them are out of print. Any recommendations for used books stores that might have them?
O.C. thanks for your essay, I printed it and going to read it. The TV interview is very inspiring. I'll definitely watch it again.
BTW, what do you say about "Arrivals & Departures"?
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
I agree. This is the one to get, first. It's a big book, but not outrageously expensive.pesphoto said:
victoriapio
Well-known
Assaf said:
Assad,
The only Winogrand books I am familiar with are the books he had published when I was taking Winogrand's art photography classes in the mid 70s. Two of them are autographed by Garry and I look through them quite regularly, especially "Animals".
I have heard great things about "Streets" and "Figments" and need to find copies of those myself as I have never looked at them. I know "Arrivals" must be different because of its limited location but again have never seen it.
Down in Texas we have a great used book store chain called Half Priced Books. I found Winogrand's "Fort Worth" there once for $5 (not in the greatest condition of course). But you have to search the stacks yourself because there is no database of what they have in stock (they may have "modernized" since the last time I was there of course).
O.C.
O.C.
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victoriapio
Well-known
I just remembered a book on American photographic history that has a chapter devoted to Garry Winogrand and Lee Friedlander. This chapter alone is worth the price of the book. You can find copies of this used for a reasonable price : Jonathan Green American Photography: A Critical History
.
O.C.
O.C.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
"Women Are Beautiful".
wilt
Well-known
I only own two Winogrand books, The man in the crowd and Figments from the real world. Of these two, I'd recommend The man in the crowd.
gumanow
Snapshooter
I would highly recommend going to your public library. That is where I first saw Public Relations and Animals. I then bought them.
JasonGawker
Newbie
hello
hello
Thank you for a wonderful post. I really like books, I like reading them and buying them. They're a great source of knowledge and culture. Yes, I do suggest reading the book you mentioned - I read it and it's lovely, you should try this place - it may help you in your purchase. It helped me.
Jason
hello
Thank you for a wonderful post. I really like books, I like reading them and buying them. They're a great source of knowledge and culture. Yes, I do suggest reading the book you mentioned - I read it and it's lovely, you should try this place - it may help you in your purchase. It helped me.
Jason