Out to Lunch
Ventor
The ugly truth is that you're unlikely to find a 35mm rangefinder + a 35m lens for AUD 1000. Save up or lower your expectations and take a gamble on a cheap alternative. Cheers, OtL
A Canon P and 35mm Color Skopar can most certainly be bought for what he is wanting to spend. There is nothing wrong with that set-up at all. $1000 AUD is $650 USA. $300 for the Skopar and Canon P bodies go for $150-200 all the time on eBay. He can even pay $350 and get one with a Canon 50mm 1.8. I thought people on a rangefinder forum would know this. Why discourage him? He is ONLY new to rangefinders. He is not a beginner. Stop treating him like one.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
The earlier Canons don't have framelines at all - just your classic combined RF/VF "peephole" finders; you swap the magnification through the different options to get the field of view that represents the lens you want to use. On early models, this was accomplished with a lever under the rewind knob. On the various L/V/VL models, that functionality was moved to a pretty stupidly placed serrated wheel right next to the eyepiece - a great way to destroy a pair of glasses!
Willfo
Member
Not entirely sure where this is coming from as people have already shown options in the price range exist, and I don't think my high expectations of having 35mm support and 1/1000 shutter speed are actually that prohibitive
Willfo
Member
Interesting! Thankfully no glasses for me yet so I won't rule it out. But does give me something to think about as I get older.
So I am now looking into the L1, VL, VI-L, P and 7
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
It's not; some people are just too set in their ways.
FYI, I just looked at one of my favourite dealers in London; there's a Canon P in full working order with a guarantee for £165.00, and a 1950 35mm f3.5 Serenar in good condition for £195. Together, that's about $637 AUD; even with shipping and tax that probably comes in below your price range. I'm not saying you should order something from the UK, but it does show that what you're looking for is totally attainable.
Hell, the same dealer has Canon's 35/2 in LTM - which is universally beloved - for £349.00. Even if you wanted to splurge for that with the Canon P you get to $909.60 before shipping and tax, and that's the sort of combo a lot of 35mm photographers would happily use for years without complaint.
Exploring RF
New at RF
I've got the Canon L1, LV and VI-L. My samples of the L-1 and VL have better rangefinders than my sample of the VI-L, my first foray into this world. I really dig them all. I use my VL-I with "zone focusing lenses". Cheap really, and as mentioned, you can often get a Canon lens with the body easily within your price range.
Also a fan of the Color Skopar.
I also have Bessa T with a meter. Different, also awesome. More costly.
One thing I'll add, controversial maybe: I enjoy using brightline viewfinders on the shoe. But that is a personal choice, adds cost, and also may depend on how you photographically roll.
Yes, my eyeglasses have suffered, but you're in luck! Have fun with whatever you choose.
Willfo
Member
The Bessa T does look fun and nearly within my price range, but not sure i could get quick enough at using it with the two step process
Cameraquest seems to describe the L1 as having the best RF patch with the least degredation since manufacture. What has your experience been?
From what I've looked at I think I would be happy with the general features of a Canon P, L1, 7, VL or VI-L - so mostly it comes down to a contest of the P's parallax compensation, and whichever model's patch is best for my eyes
Exploring RF
New at RF
My L1 and VL patches are both great to me. I've never handled a Leica, so keep that in mind.
But I do have the Canon Viewfinders with "simple, yet elegant" Parallax-correction. Not that expensive if just buying one for one focal length, and they are the cat's meow in my book. But, not if you don't like that accessory viewfinder. However, you might like it if you tried it. Others will have their opinions.
Never had a Canon P, so can't help there.
There's a Canon 7 & 50mm lens going in Australia for $600 at present (nothing to do with me, I've just seen the advertisement). Non working meter but otherwise good. Leaves some room in your budget for a 35mm lens, or just flip the 50mm if you really don't want it (I find they have their uses, personally). I have sent a private message Willfo, so perhaps make contact with me.
mike rosenlof
Insufficient information
the P is a good choice but the 35mm framelines are sometimes hard to see, very close to the frame edge. I prefer the viewfinder of the L-1 to the P. It doesn't have projected framelines, just the edges of the window but there is a selector for 35, 50, or high magnification for the RF patch. The rangefinder patch is unusually clear (easily visible) on mine.
You do have to deal with an old style shutter though. (on the L-1), two shutter speed dials, for high and low speeds, plus the top dial rotates when the shutter operates. But the back opens, and has a lever wind. Kind of "half the Barnack clunkiness". Fun camera to use!
You do have to deal with an old style shutter though. (on the L-1), two shutter speed dials, for high and low speeds, plus the top dial rotates when the shutter operates. But the back opens, and has a lever wind. Kind of "half the Barnack clunkiness". Fun camera to use!
Evergreen States
Francine Pierre Saget (they/them)
I don't know what they cost in Oz, but it seems to me that the best deal in Leica Ms at this time is the Hexar RF, which can be had for about $1000 USD. If that's too high to clear, I'd get a Canon 7, so long as you understand that you're locked in with 35mm as the widest frame lines, as there's no cold or hot shoe to mount an external VF on. But if I had a Canon 7 and needed something wider or longer I'd just use an SLR.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
There's only one camera I can think of: Leica CL
Find a clean one on eBay; a CLA will cost you around $300. You're all-in for < $1,000.
hap
Well-known
I do like my CL and a decent meter.....and ergonomics somewhat similar to M5
retinax
Well-known
I like the Canon 7, its viewfinder is much better for 35 mm than the P (I have both). It's not super small, but the P has the same frame, but is less tall. You get used to the height and it feels very solid and precise, although certainly not as much so as a Leica or Spotmatic.The selenium meter on the 7 is imprecise if it works, mine does, but I use an external one.
Leica CL is a good thought, it doesn't have 35mm frame lines but 40mm, but the difference isn't much.
My 35 is the modest Jupiter-12, but with your budget I'd look for a Canon f/1.8 or f/2.
Leica CL is a good thought, it doesn't have 35mm frame lines but 40mm, but the difference isn't much.
My 35 is the modest Jupiter-12, but with your budget I'd look for a Canon f/1.8 or f/2.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
The Canon 7 was first made 61 years ago. Put your money in that basket, say a prayer, and hope for the best. Cheers, OtL
Capt. E
Established
I would recommend (if not already done) a Nikon Rangefinder. You should be able to find a model S2 or S3 in perfect condition with a 50mm lens or even a 35mm in perfect condition for well under $1000. I have see nice kits on eBay for $500. The model SP is the top version and would probably run you a bit more that 1K. I have used them for many years. You would need to get a light meter as they do not have one built in.
Here is my S2: Under 1K for this set.
Here is my S2: Under 1K for this set.
Attachments
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I like the CL suggestion. Mine has an inaccurate meter but I don't mind. With a CL, both M and LTM lens options. Might go over $1K but not much. Konica HexarRF is a joy to use. M and LTM options again. Some worry about future repairability... Might go over $1K.
I have multiple Canon 7s. Don't like them. I think most of the enjoyable film RF cameras seem to cost a bit much these days. Unfortunate for those just getting into them.
My advice: increase the budget at least a bit more and help ensure satisfaction.
I have multiple Canon 7s. Don't like them. I think most of the enjoyable film RF cameras seem to cost a bit much these days. Unfortunate for those just getting into them.
My advice: increase the budget at least a bit more and help ensure satisfaction.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I see a Leica iiic body on ebay, said to be "fully functional" for $335 and shipping. Might that leave enough for a lens? The iiic can really grow on you!
Willfo
Member
Thanks for the additions everyone!
The CL is interesting and could be feasibly be around the price range if I were lucky and got a good deal. I like the M lens option in that they are easier to source (buyable new as well) and there are reasonably priced choices (such as cheaper voigtlanders). The cheapest Canon 35mm L39 I've seen is about $550.
The Hexar body seems around $1,500. Other bodies like Bessa R2s seem to be about $1800 and Leica M2s around $2300.
The cheapest working IIIc I can see is over $500 and I am worried I would miss the advance lever - but I wouldn't be surprised if you told me it was still smoother than a later Canon
Between the 6 different Canons, the Nikons, and at a stretch the CL, there are a lot more good choices than I'd expected in the price range! At this rate I might be spoilt for choice and end up having more trouble finding a lens than a decent body
The CL is interesting and could be feasibly be around the price range if I were lucky and got a good deal. I like the M lens option in that they are easier to source (buyable new as well) and there are reasonably priced choices (such as cheaper voigtlanders). The cheapest Canon 35mm L39 I've seen is about $550.
The Hexar body seems around $1,500. Other bodies like Bessa R2s seem to be about $1800 and Leica M2s around $2300.
The cheapest working IIIc I can see is over $500 and I am worried I would miss the advance lever - but I wouldn't be surprised if you told me it was still smoother than a later Canon
Between the 6 different Canons, the Nikons, and at a stretch the CL, there are a lot more good choices than I'd expected in the price range! At this rate I might be spoilt for choice and end up having more trouble finding a lens than a decent body