Red Guard leica!!!

Hilarious...
Maybe Leica is assembling a bad taste master-list and are using these cameras as a means of identifying who belongs on it... Not a bad idea in targeting Chinese (half joking of course).
 
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Roger Hicks said:
A bit of an understatement.

No, you didn't realize what a horrible place it is/was because you were systematically lied to by the government. A government that told you, for example, that Tibetan is a dialect of Chinese and that Tibet has always been part of China. Read history: China was once a vassal state that paid tribute to Tibet. Read the Zhol Doring in Lhasa (Long Stone, dating from the 8th century C.E.): "Whereas the Chinese people are happy in China, and the Tibetan people are happy in Tibet..." (It may be the other way around; that's from memory).

The Chinese Empire will collapse. With any luck, in my lifetime. Then the 60% of the land area of 'China' that is in fact other countries (Tibet, Uighurstan, Mongolia...) may be free. The only hope is that it happens without too much bloodshed.

Tashi deleg,

R.
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A lot of countries today are really empires built up in centuries past by military conquest, still ruling over people of different language/culture/race/etc. China is one, so is Russia. Only about 2/3 of Russia's people are Europeans, and not all of them are ethnic Russians.

I don't think there is any danger of China's empire breaking up in our lifetimes; it has stood for 1000 years with Sinkiang under Chinese rule that whole time and Tibet being at various times tributary and other times independent. The Chinese have lost some large areas of Territory to foreign powers, notably Russia. Russia rules the coastal strip between Manchuria and the Pacific coast, which was taken from China. Mongolia was part of China too till Russia took it and set up a puppet state in the 19th century. Still, China endures and continues to rule vast tracts of land inhabited by Uigurs, Mongols, Tibetans, and Manchus as well as a large number of smaller less well known ethnic groups. I don't think that will change anytime soon.

I expect the USA to break up before China. We have a short history and the country is already being torn apart by economic decay, political infighting, sectionalism, and our leading citizens have zero loyalty to their country. China is industrializing fast while the USA is giving it all to them....we will live to regret that.
 
you should have engrave skull and bones with the communist flag in the background ... and the literature should says 60th anniversary of People Under Oppression of chinese communist. disgusting! the only class that is rich right now is the progressive communist class. 90% of the chinese people still dirt poor
 
alan davus said:
And of course the sun never set on the British Empire once.
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The British Empire is gone because the British CHOSE to grant independence to the colonies. The colonies that became the USA are the only colonies Britain ever lost to insurrection, and that was largely because France was fighting against Britain in Europe at the time. Historians say the reason the empire was relinquished was the economic problems Britain had after the second world war. True, the government wanted to spend the money that was used for colonial administration on social programs at home, but they could have kept them if they wanted to. China does not want to give up its conquered lands and has the economic and military strength to keep them.
 
If lies can keep people feel happy, secured and united, I don't see the point to stop lying.

My grandfather has worked 15 years in Tibet and all I know is that he loved the soil and the people, and he was loved too. He has never mentioned the unhappy Tibetans, and I don't think he hid that part from me for politic reasons. I have been to the Inner Mongolia myself and I didn't feel any existence of hatred towards the Chinese people either. In fact they are now considering themselves Chinese, too. And yes, they are both parts of the People's Republic of China. It is what I was told, and also how they are recognized officially by the UN if I'm not mistaken.

No place is ought to belong to anyone, for eternity cannot be possessed by the creations of time. It is history that has led Tibet part of China today, and it can very well be a land of somebody else's tomorrow. In the meantime, people live.




Roger Hicks said:
A bit of an understatement.

No, you didn't realize what a horrible place it is/was because you were systematically lied to by the government. A government that told you, for example, that Tibetan is a dialect of Chinese and that Tibet has always been part of China. Read history: China was once a vassal state that paid tribute to Tibet. Read the Zhol Doring in Lhasa (Long Stone, dating from the 8th century C.E.): "Whereas the Chinese people are happy in China, and the Tibetan people are happy in Tibet..." (It may be the other way around; that's from memory).

The Chinese Empire will collapse. With any luck, in my lifetime. Then the 60% of the land area of 'China' that is in fact other countries (Tibet, Uighurstan, Mongolia...) may be free. The only hope is that it happens without too much bloodshed.

Tashi deleg,

R.
Click to expand...
 
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ulrich.von.lich said:
If lies can keep people feel happy, secured and united, I don't see the point to stop lying.

My grandfather has worked 15 years in Tibet and all I know is that he loved the soil and the people, and he was loved too. He has never mentioned the unhappy Tibetans, and I don't think he hid that part from me for politic reasons. I have been to the Inner Mongolia myself and I didn't feel any existence of hatred towards the Chinese people either. In fact they are now considering themselves Chinese, too. And yes, they are both parts of the People's Republic of China. It is what I was told, and also how they are recognized officially by the UN if I'm not mistaken.

No place is ought to belong to anyone, for eternity cannot be possessed by the creations of time. It is history that has led Tibet part of China for now, and it can very well be a land of somebody else's tomorrow. In the meantime, people live.
Click to expand...
The highlighted portion says it all, really.

"It is history..." Well, yes, in the sense that 'history' includes a brutal invasion, massacres, massive colonization... All in the last 60 years, the blink of an eye in historical terms.

Maybe one reason you think Tibetans are happy is that you listen to Chinese government lies. Why do you think it's so hard for journalists to visit Tibet? And why do the Chinese periodically close the country completely?

Is the Tibetan Government in Exile lying? Maybe. But shouldn't people be allowed to make up their own minds? At the moment, it's quite hard for Chinese citizens, or citizens of any country occupied by China, to make comparisons because of heavy censorship. You're in favour of that too? And do you never ask yourself what the Chinese government is afraid of?

EDIT: If you were from the 'minority nations', how much would YOU dare say to someone from the occupying power, knowing you faced imprisonment or execution for telling the truth? The arrogance of saying that no-one hates the Chinese in the occupied countries is deeply reminiscent of the old European colonial arguments that "They respect the white man." Of course they did, because they'd be beaten senseless and thrown in jail if they weren't obsequious enough. Ask yourself: is that real respect?

And have you ever met a nun who has been raped with an electric cattle prod by a PLA soldier? I have...

Tashi delek,

R.
 
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I won't touch the politics on this, but I've now seen these cameras in Beijing and Guangzhou--both at honest-to-goodness authorized Leica dealers. They are not knockoffs--but they are ugly.

The gold plated and red leather is the worst, but the ones (M7 and M8, I believe) with Tiananmen on the top aren't bad (only because the engraving is somewhat discreet--when compared to the gold plated monstrosity).

Think the gold plated MP I saw today was RMB 150,000 (about USD 24,000).

My question is: Why would Leica produce a special M8, instead of a special M9. Why not charge USD 30,000 for a PRC 60th Anniversary M9....people here in China would buy it (of course, they'll by the special M7s, M8s, and regular M9s too.

Long Live Capitalism,

Jeff
 
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