Reducing Chemical Quantities

[csaunders]

Hi all,

I am travelling overseas in the next few months to a place which has no availability of black and white chemicals. Unfortunately this means that I have to ship all the chemicals in advance.

I am taking 400 rolls of tri-x, which means a lot of chemistry is required, so I am looking at ways to reduce what I have to ship.

I was planning on taking D-76 powder, Ilford rapid fix and Ilford stop bath, but I was wondering if any of you film geniuses know how I can reduce this? Do I really need stop bath? I've heard some people just use water. Is Ilford Rapid fix the best as far as weight/per roll ratio?

Thanks in advance!
-Christian

 

[martin s]

Just an idea - no stop bath and Rodinal dilutet to 1+100, at 3ml a Roll you'd only need 3 bottels. No guarantee the math is correct though. I'd combine this with a large tank to maybe stand develop several rolls at once.

martin

 

[csaunders]

OK. Thanks guys. If people could describe in details their alternative stop-bath methods, that would be great.

i.e dilutions, times, etc. Vinegar? Lemon juice?

Thanks!!!

 

[Florian1234]

400 rolls? 😱 OMG! Where do you go? And for how long?

 

[Al Kaplan]

I'd take D-76 and powdered fixer. You might run into problems with shipping liquids or taking them on a plane. Also, with powdered chemicals you're not paying money to ship water. No stop bath. A water rinse is fine.

 

[like2fiddle]

I agree with the powder vs. liquid option. Just keep in mind that if you use only water for the stop bath, give the film a little extra time in there because you run the risk of running down your fixer faster if the pH isn't brought down enough between the developer and the fixer.

 

[palec]

You can mix Xtol at room temperature, while you'll need hotter water to mix D-76.

I've used water instead of stop-bath for one year and had no problems. I started using stop bath to get more precise dev times and prolong fixer life.

 

[dufffader]

Its not necessary to skip the stop bath if this is something you are used to. Just a little bit of stop bath concentrate will mix you a nice litre of the solution at destination. It should fit into a tiny bottle. At least with the Kodak Indicator SB I've run many many rolls of film before the indicator turns colour. At least a hundred.

I'd go along with Martin on the Rodinal 1+100. 6ml of it will be enough to develop 2 rolls (650ml 2 roll tank), meaning you will require 1.2L of that thing. I've been trying out powdered D76 lately, and even with 1+3 dilution, you might need to bring quite a lot of the powder. Hopefully it will be easy to explain to the customs why you need those white powder!

I'd be worried about the Ilford rapid fix. You'll need quite a lot of them for 400 rolls. Even if you stretch it till exhaustion, 10 rolls will require at least 120ml. So you'll need almost 5L of that thing. I'd go powdered fixers.

 

[dufffader]

By the way, where will you be going? Maybe some of us here could let you know about the availability chemicals at the destination?

 

[Al Kaplan]

At least here in Miami I have no trouble mixing D-76 at "room temperature" between 70f and 85f. It won't all disolve right away, but it will overnight.

Another suggestion is Diafine. It's not my favorite developer but time and temperature aren't critical, and it doesn't get exhausted on you.

 

[ethics_gradient]

Was just wondering about this the other day, I take some multi-month trips and was thinking of doing my own developing on the road.

How about other developing supplies? I've got a two reel Patterson tank on the way. From what I gather I'll need some things for mixing, probably a syringe, etc.

 

[Beemermark]

Substitute

Substitute

Fixer is nothing but sodium thiosulfate, which is commonly available. Years ago I used to work at a place that used sodium thiosulfate for water treatment in the boilers, I used that boiler treatment for years. Also, as a lot of people stated you can use vinegar instead of stop bath, however I generally skip it completely. However stop bath is nothing but acetic acid (so is vinegar) highly diluted. Sodium thiosulfate and acetic acid are very common chemicals that you should be able to find anywhere in the world.

 

[csaunders]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm off to Mauritius for six months, and have contacted Kodak and I can't get the chemicals there, or even from their distributor in South Africa! Unbelievable...

Any RFFers in Mauritius know otherwise?

It's really hard to get hold of Rodinal over here (Western Australia), so I'm leaning away from that as I want to practice and standardize everything before I go.

I didn't know that you could get powdered fixer; that's great news! Who makes it? Any recommendations for a D-76/fixer combo would be appreciated.

I was planning on sending the stuff in advance by sea mail; much cheaper than air or excess baggage.

I've read that sometimes using water only as a stop bath can lead to incomplete or short-life fixing... is this true?

Has anyone here actually used vinegar?

Thanks again.

 

[David William White]

At 400 rolls (are you serious!), you'll probably be doing film in batches, not one or two at a time. D-76 mixed up by the gallon seems appropriate here. Same with Kodak powdered fixer (which you will re-use for fixing your contact prints).

Whatever you've read about using water as stop leading to incomplete or short-life fixing is making way to much of it. A good rinse is sufficient to both halt development AND keep your fixer at the right pH.

With that much film, I'd mix up D-76 in a gallon jug, giving it time to thoroughly desolve, and drop your loaded reels right in, giving a stir. Or just the film, developing many rolls like spagetti. I know you'll say I'm nuts, but I'm not. Have a tub with fresh water for the rinse, and another with a gallon of fixer. Do this at night in a dark room, and you can probably do 10 rolls at a time and have them hanging to dry inside of 15 minutes. Just put a lid on your jugs till the next session.

 

[venchka]

You don't need us. Figure it out for yourself. Do the math.

D-76 requires 8 oz per roll.
Xtol requires 100ml per roll. I process 2 rolls of 35mm in 200ml Xtol + 600ml water. Works fine.
1 gallon of Kodak fixer from powder will fix 100 rolls. I think. Verify that with the Kodak web pages.
Diafine, 1 gallon A & 1 gallon B plus 1 quart of A and 1 quart of B as replenishment might do all 400 rolls.
You will probably be working in high temperatures. Xtol 1:3 and Diafine will keep you from very short developing times.
Plain water for stop. Too many people have been doing it for too long. It works.

You won't be gone long enough to worry about long term storage.

Good luck.

 

[venchka]

Smacks his head hard! Duh!

If it was me, and it's not, but if it was me, I would bring my exposed film home. Process in controlled conditions. Store properly.

Are you taking archival storage pages for 400 rolls of film? Are you taking large tanks and lots of reels? How about a dust free environment for drying your negatives?

Travel light. Film only. Process properly on your return.

Good luck! Share your results.

 

[Melvin]

I agree with venchka just get the film back to london/perth and develop it there. If you can carry it in you can carry it out. And show us what you get--

 

[Tom A]

Shooting "blind" for 6 month is not a good idea! Any small problem in the cameras can go unnoticed (pin holed shutter, speeds off, shutter capping etc) and you could end up with 399 damaged rolls!
Take powdered chemicals, either D76 or Xtol would work. Powdered fix is a pain to mix, but it works fine. Bring a bit more than you need as things do go wrong occasionally.
6 month (180 days) and 400 rolls = 2 rolls a day. Not that heavy shooting - but bring larger tanks (5 reel Paterson's) as that means you can shoot for 4-5 days and then process. Film tends to accumulate if you dont discipline yourself to process regularly. Also bring back-up tanks as Murphy's Law applies here. If you only have one tank - it will crack! If you have two - they will survive intact! Also bring extra reels so that you can do 10-15 rolls in a session.
Figure out that you can do 25 rolls/gallon D76 (1:1) and the fix will last about 50 rolls or 4 weeks.
Disregard the stop bath - you dont need it - two quick rinses with water in the tank will do.
Bring enough archival file pages too. Storing film in cans or uncut rolls for extended periods will give you problems.
D76 has limited shelf life once mixed as stock - it doesn't "die" - but its activity increases after a couple of weeks and "rough" grain is the result. Xtol is OK - but will die without warning. One day it is fine - the next day it is dead as the proverbial doornail.
Make it a habit of mixing developer fresh and use it up in one or two sessions a couple of days apart at the most. With 25 rolls/gallon @ 1:1 and averaging 2 rolls/day - batch up 25 rolls and run it in a session or two. The fix will store for a month and handle two of these batches (50 rolls/gallon). Double up on everything - just in case. If you are shipping ahead a 5lbs or 10 lbs extra is not going to make that much of a difference anyway.
The most important thing is to keep it simple and establish a routine for everything. Sounds boring but works in the long run.
Depending on your accomodations - consider how to dry the film in a dustfree environment (plastic clothes bag as an emergency "drying cabinet?).
Sounds like a great project - hope you will let us know how it works out.
Also tell all fellow workers or visitors that photographic supplies are high on your list - to the point where you supply potential visitors with a list of what you might need and where they can get it. Hey, what are friends for anyway!
PS: keep notes - who,when,were etc and design a simple reference system to keep order and sequence of the rolls. Will save you a lot of time later.

 

[Melvin]

ok nevermind listen to Tom

 

[csaunders]

Thanks everybody for contributing.

Seems to me that I will only need to ship D-76 and some fixer and I can forget the stop bath. That's great news.

As you say Tom, 2 rolls a day isn't a lot of shooting, and I do plan to keep on top of the developing, filing and labeling as much as possible; every night if I can...

I won't have anything to show for a year or so, but when I do I'll be sure to let you all know.

Thanks again!