Removing water - basic question

[daveozzz]

I've just developed my 2nd roll of film - and it was all going swimmingly until the last hurdle. I followed the Ilford method (in this case with Pan F+ in Xtol) and got to the step where you run "a squeegee or chamois" down the lengh of the film.
Last time I deviated from the instructions and used a lint free cloth (a mistake I found out since it didn't move any water) - this time I got a piece of chamois like a good boy and tried to run it down the length, but it was like running a chamois down a strip of sellotape - totally impossible since the filmn was sticky. I ended up with water marks and small fibres galore on the film.

Could one of you experienced developers explain to me exactly how they go about this last step without screwing up the film?

(I never used a wetting agent which I know would help (a lot)... I was under the impression it as optional... is it really an essential?)

Cheers muchly,
Dave.

 

[daveozzz]

Btw - in the bits of the negative that turned out OK Pan F+ looks like an amazing film. Makes Velvia look grainy.

 

[bmattock]

There is a special squeegee you can buy for a couple of bucks which resembles a pair of plastic tongs with a rubber blade on the inside of each side. You place the film inbetween the blades and squeeze lightly, while pulling the film through in one motion.

Alternatively, you can use Kodak Photo-Flo 2000, which is a 'wetting agent' that keeps water from forming spots as it dries and soak the film in it (highly diluted, like 200:1) for the last 30 seconds. Then just run the film between your index and middle fingers in a squeegee-like motion and hang it up in a dust-free environment. A small bottle lasts a very long time and doesn't cost much.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[pshinkaw]

I've always used my fingers. Dip the film in diluted Photo-flo solution, forefinger and middle finger, wet themwith Photo-flo, place the film between them and squegee downward.

-Paul

 

[peterc]

Irun "a squeegee or chamois" down the lengh of the film.

Dave, I'd recommend not running anything down the length of the wet film. In some films the emulsion is still sticky (as you discovered) and even a small speck of dust can do really nasty damage as you drag is across the film.
After washing, just hanging the film up to dry in a dust-free place is best. A wetting agent can help to reduce drying marks. Some people suggest misting the film with distilled water (with or without a wetting agent). Don't use too much wetting agent though or you'll end up with soap scum on your film.

Peter

 

[jjthe2]

I don't claim to be an expert, but I use a wetting agent and try use clean water (distilled) for the final rinse. I try not to touch the film, trying to squeegee or chamois the film has always caused me problems with scratches and particles. Assuming your space is fairly dust free, I think it's far better to not handle the film at all when it is wet.

 

[LazyHammock]

I use a film squeegee that is comprised of two pieces of sponge on tongs. It works very well. I have also successfully run the film between two fingers to remove excess water. I use Kodak photo-flo in the final rinse, it helps the negatives dry without streaks or spots (the local water is quite hard).

 

[alliv]

Wetting agent, squeegge didn't worked for me. What really helped was doing final wash in distilled water.

 

[Stephan]

I use a chamois too, the trick is to get it wet before you run it down the film actually. Leave it under the tap a bit and squeeze it out and you'll be fine.

Edit: and use wetting agent, especially if you dont dry the film with a cabinet it really helps keep the negs clean (in my bathroom anyway 😛 ).

 

[daveozzz]

Bloody hell - 8 replies in 10 mins! Cheers folk.

Interesting point about a dust-free atmosphere... in don't think anywhere in this house is dust free! I do all this in the bath.

And looks like almost everyone uses a wetting agent - OK one for the shopping list then.

So without any new gear I have the option of the following improvements:-

- using distilled water for the final rinse -I guess filtered water would be a step in the right direction?
- using a wet chamois instead of a dry one

You reckon just those 2 would make a big difference? - or should I hold of my next attempt until I have some wetting agent..?

 

[gns]

I would not (and never have) wipe the film off at all. Photo-Flo, shake off excess while still on spool, hang up to dry. I have done hundreds, if not thousands of rolls like this and never had a problem. Maybe it takes a little linger to dry. I don't know. Why touch it with anything if you don't need to?

Gary

 

[oftheherd]

I haven't developed film for a little over 15 years until just recently.

However, I never felt comfortable wiping the film. I got away with it several times and didn't several times so I just quit. Photoflo is a help with Kodak and other films. If they haven't changed the emulsion in the last 20 years or so, you shouldn't need to worry with Ilford anyway. It just wouldn't spot. It dried totally differently than Kodak and other films.

Those of you who have used it more recently, has that changed?

 

[daveozzz]

I have to say the idea of not touching it at all is probably most appealing - do you use distilled water?

 

[titrisol]

I used to have one of those sequeegees a long time ago but strange longitudinal scratches in my films made a case for not using it.

Using distilled water (deionized works as well, filtered is not ecough) made a world of difference, after that just hang the film to dry in a btahroom. It is best if you run a hot shower for a minute or four to remove all dust from the atmoshpere.

Lately I do the same, but my last rinse is with Photo-flo in distilled water (a couple of drops in 500 ml) and then hang to dry in the curtain rod using one of those hangers for pants and a pony clamp at the bottom as weight.
It usually dries in an hour or less.

 

[pesphoto]

I have always used photo flo for 20-30 seconds and then lightly run the film between 2 fingers.
This has always worked for me. Just make sure you dont pet your dog before doing this! hehe

 

[gns]

I have not used distilled water. Just tap water, and I have had several darkrooms in diffrent areas of California over the years. The water quality has never been an issue.

I should have noted above that my experience is with Kodak films only. Mostly TR-X, some Plus-X.

Gary

 

[ChrisN]

This is what works for me:

Distilled water - 1 litre, mixed with
Foto-flo - 5ml
Iso-col (alcohol rub) 10ml (as a wetting agent)

rinse for 30 seconds, shake excess off the reel, then hang the film for an hour to dry in the small bathroom with the exhaust fan and the heat-lamps running.

This has given my best results so far. Sometimes I'll use the squeegee, but only lightly.

I haven't yet tried the dry-it-on-the-reel method. I want to make a dryer one day to try that.

 

[kaiyen]

So I'm going to just sound like lots of others by saying...

1 - don't squeegee. I personally have never liked the idea.

2 - use photo-flo. But not as much as the bottle recommends. Halve the amount you put into the solvent.

3 - If you're going to dry it in the bathroom, run the shower for like 2 minutes first. The steam will help pull the dust down.

If you're going to dry it on the reel, build a tube-based thing and put a hair dryer on cool into it. It works quite well. I would point you to the shutterbug article, but they've taken the direct link down.

allan

 

[eli griggs]

I also used Photo-Flo and found it to be fine on its' own. I never did like the thought of drying on the reels though.

A large closet garment bag with zipper could be a help if you want a drying cabinet, but lack space. Just fold it up when not needed. Use laundry softener/static sheets from the dryer and wipe down the inside now and again to control static dust collecting. Heck, you could even use a battery powered computer fan and a cut-up central air filter with a bit of duct tape and get some air flow going. I’m thinking a cardboard cigar box would make a good fan/battery and filter assembly, with a simple cutout for the duct taped counter air flow-filter completing the project.

For example;http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1297739

Cheers

 

[Bryan Lee]

If you have any problems measuring small amounts of fluids for your mixtures just get some big shot needles from a vetnarian or farm supply.