Repairing a 135mm Tele-Elmar

[pevelg]

Before I send off my new used 135mm Tele-Elmar to DAG, I was wondering if I could easily fix this problem myself. The issue is regarding focusing. The lens focuses on items that are in front of the point of focus. So when focusing to infinity, the lens remains unfocused. I know the rangefinder is calibrated and my method of focusing is accurate... I can focus my 75mm at f2.5 without the 1.25x magnifier. With this 135mm, I cannot even with magnifier, so I know it is the lens. Plus, to get item intended into focus, I have to make sure the rangefinder image is NOT aligned. DAG has quoted me $90, plus $18 return shipping, plus me shipping to DAG, which totals to around $115. This is over half the price I paid for this lens. The seller has kindly offered to pay the majority of this fix, but I am wondering if this is all worth going through. The lens itself is nice, clean glass and mechanically ok. It is the type 1 M mount version. I would like to fix this lens myself, but have not done a repair like this before. Can it be done easily? What complications might arise? Or should I just return this item?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

It is worth doing correctly. And if the seller offered to pay for most of the repair, do it.

The optics module is out too far from the film plane. There might be a shim that can be reduced. I fixed a 1946 9cm F4 Elmar which had the same problem. Taking the optics out, removing a collar, and Filing the focus mount down was required to correct the problem. I paid $60 for the lens, and now it works great. You paid $200 for the lens, and can get a pro to repair it for a fraction of the regular cost.

 

[pevelg]

So the repair is more complicated than I am imagining? If it requires filing, then I will for sure prefer having a pro do this.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

You will not know how complex the repair is until you take it apart. I expected to find a simple shim on the Elmar- but was wrong. The optics could not be screwed in far enough to the focus mount, and that's why I had to file it.

If you've repaired lenses like these before, usually you can figure out some solution.

Sometimes, you just have to make stuff up as you are doing the repair.

http://www.ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=224

 

[Rico]

Repair it. A $300 TE135 with tuneup from DAG is below market. Any money back from the seller is gravy.

 

[raydm6]

Under the circumstances, I would repair the lens. It would be a waste not to. It is simply a stunner. I will never sell mine. 😀

 

[awilder]

I'm a little unclear about the problem. If you set the lens to infinity and shoot a distant subject, is it sharp or out of focus? If sharp, the lens focuses correctly and most likely the problem stems from the lens' rangefinder member being stuck from dried lubricant from lack of use. Sometimes pulling it backwards towards you a few times loosens it up. Also uncrew the lens head from the focusing mount and look to make sure the serial # on the front of the lens matches exactly that printed or engraved inside the front barrel of the focusing mount. If they don't match, you have a big problem and should return the lens. That happened once to me with a KEH 135/4 TE and I returned it.

 

[pevelg]

When I focus to infinity at F4, the image is not in focus. The focus does not become satisfactory until around f11. Now, the closer the point of focus gets to the film plain, the more noticeable shift in focus is noted. For example, I focused on some apartment buildings across the lake, focus point at less than infinity, the apartments remain somewhat out of focus, while the trees on my side of the lake are more in focus. Similarly, when shooting a piece of sheet music very close to me on a slanted music stand, I will focus on the title on the top of the page, which is further from the film plan than the bottom of the page (music stand in slanted). When image is taken, the bottom of page has somewhat better focus (not perfect at this angle) while the title on top of page is out of focus. I've tried taking shots at many different distances and all our out of focus unless I adjust for the error (focusing beyond the spot of intended focus). While I understand that most images are softer in regards to sharpness at max aperture, this is not what is happening here as items are very sharp when focus error is compensated for. I took off the lens head and the serial numbers do match. I will try to get some pictures posted tomorrow showing the focus issue. So far the advice seems to favor me having DAG repair item... I'll decide within a couple days.

 

[pevelg]

Well, item is now off to DAG. Thanks for the advice. Can't wait to get it back.

 

[mikenic]

Tele Elmar 135mm f4 front focusing

Tele Elmar 135mm f4 front focusing

Apologies, I know this is an older thread, but I have the same problem with my Leica 135mm Tele-Elmar f:4 , ie focusing in front at all distances.

A turn of approx 1.5mm to 2mm on the focusing ring toward infinity brings it into sharp focus. The lens is good except for the focusing issue and my M8 has been recently aligned and works well with all other lenses.

Where would I find the shims if there are any used in the lens and how do you get to them? There is nothing in the Viso joint.

Is it an option to shave/file the cam surface in the lens (the moving vertical one that rides on the camera rangefinder roller) to effectively trick the camera into focusing the lens correctly.?? The amount to be removed would certainly be very small.

Would this be easier than a mount surface grind and are there implications I am not aware of (other than removing too much cam surface material)?
Thanks
Mike

 

[Al Kaplan]

I think that grinding the rangefinder tab in the back is the opposite of what you need to do! Now if I were to want to shim the lens the easiest place to put a shim would be in the focusing mount before you screw in the lens head.

Unscrew the lens head and see if somebody did shim it! Perhaps with light card stock or a few layers of paper?

 

[mikenic]

Hi Al, thanks for the quick reply.

My thinking on the cam filing was this.
1. The Tele Elmar lens cam moves out (toward the camera) as you focus toward infinity.
2. The camera rangefinder is telling me, through the finder mechanism, that the lens is correctly focused, but it is actually a little forward.
3. To give me correct focus feedback, I should really see a forward focused image in my finder.
4. So, to make the rangefinder match the actual focus of the lens, I need to move the focus indication in the rangefinder patch forward a little.
5. To achieve this I must effectively move the rangefinder roller away from infinity, ie toward the lens a little.
6. So shave a little off the cam in the lens.
Now my head hurts 😱

BTW, there are no shims in the Viso joint.
Mike

 

[Al Kaplan]

There's a way to test my theory: Cut a ring of light card stock, such as an index card, and use it to shim the lens out that little bit in the mount. If the focus is worse, the point of focus even closer, then you know that you're going in the wrong direction.

 

[mikenic]

Hi Al
It's even easier than that to test.
Just unscrew the lens optics at the Viso connection point by a quarter turn. That simulates a shim.
But it moves focus closer unfortunately.
Regards

**Addendum. 25 November 2009
As a follow up, I have tested the lens focus wide open at infinity and the forward focusing problem is still there.
In that case, filing the focus cam will give joy only until I reach the infinity end, where focus is limited by the lens infinity stop. The problem is at the lens module end, being too far away from the sensor, so no go with that cam filing idea. Need to get the grinding of one of the Viso joint surfaces carried out, so that it all comes back to match the rangefinder end of the lens. I do wish I had shims I could remove!