Reversing Leica priorities

[Roger Hicks]

...or perceptions. Complaints that Leicas are too expensive for the working pro are commonplace, but here are two alternative ideas.

First, Leicas were always luxuries aimed at the rich, but they were (and are) such good cameras that quite a few professionals decided to find the money.

Second, if you're a really successful professional, to quote the late, great Terence Donovan, "Let's face it, cameras are so f***ing cheap that you can afford a new f***ing camera for each f***ing job." This may be a slight exaggeration but if you can't lose a few thousand 'on the business' every now and then, how good a professional are you?

Cheers,

R.

 

[tmfabian]

...or perceptions. Complaints that Leicas are too expensive for the working pro are commonplace, but here are two alternative ideas.

First, Leicas were always luxuries aimed at the rich, but they were (and are) such good cameras that quite a few professionals decided to find the money.

Second, if you're a really successful professional, to quote the late, great Terence Donovan, "Let's face it, cameras are so f***ing cheap that you can afford a new f***ing camera for each f***ing job." This may be a slight exaggeration but if you can't lose a few thousand 'on the business' every now and then, how good a professional are you?

Cheers,

R.

well that last sentence just about sums it all up.

 

[ferider]

If you run a good business, every thousand counts.

And how about students on their way to become pros ?

My 2 cents,

Roland.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Perhaps I should clarify that I meant 'lose' in the sense of 'buy something you want, and justify it to the tax man for personal work, research, one job, whatever'.

Edit, after reading Roland's reply:

Yes. And there should be enough thousands that every now and then, you can buy something for the above reasons. Otherwise it's not that good a business.

And what about students? They can buy second-hand, as students normally do.

Cheers,

R.

 

[tmfabian]

If you run a good business, every thousand counts.

Roland.

and that's why I factor in equipment fees into my costs. It allows me to "lose" that few thousand on new gear.

 

[Svitantti]

First, Leicas were always luxuries aimed at the rich, but they were (and are) such good cameras that quite a few professionals decided to find the money.

I am not really a professional about these things but I thought Leica was actually just a fine 35mm camera for practical photography - of course from the top of the price list but also a very well working one. I don't see why they weren't a choice for anyone looking for a fine camera to serve for a long time, not just for the rich ones...

 

[ferider]

Dear Roger,

I'm not criticising Leica prices. Obviously Leica charges what they can.

I'm only analyzing.

And it sounds like you and me agree that students are not part of their target market.

I don't understand why a student should use a 2nd hand Leica film kit during school years, and then as a successful professional suddenly switch to a new digital Leica.

I myself, just because I'm not a professional photographer, feel very much part of Leicas target market. Still I won't buy new Leica equipment .... 🙂

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[Al Patterson]

Perhaps I should clarify that I meant 'lose' in the sense of 'buy something you want, and justify it to the tax man for personal work, research, one job, whatever'.

Edit, after reading Roland's reply:

Yes. And there should be enough thousands that every now and then, you can buy something for the above reasons. Otherwise it's not that good a business.

And what about students? They can buy second-hand, as students normally do.

Cheers,

R.

I would use the word "bury" rather than "lose". After the job, you still have the camera, so you haven't "lost" anything really.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I am not really a professional about these things but I thought Leica was actually just a fine 35mm camera for practical photography - of course from the top of the price list but also a very well working one. I don't see why they weren't a choice for anyone looking for a fine camera to serve for a long time, not just for the rich ones...

Indeed. That was my point, really.

Leicas are luxuries which also happen to be very fine cameras. You can buy them as a luxury, without really appreciating what you are buying, or because you want a good camera. As you say, this applies whether you are an amateuir or a professional.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I don't understand why a student should use a 2nd hand Leica film kit during school years, and then as a successful professional suddenly switch to a new digital Leica.

Roland.

Dear Roland,

No reason at all -- unless he wants to and is successful enough to buy a new one. And why should it be digital?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I would use the word "bury" rather than "lose". After the job, you still have the camera, so you haven't "lost" anything really.

Dear Al,

Absolutely. That's why I qualified 'lose', though 'lose' is the term that has always current among most professionals I know when they buy something they could live without, but would prefer to have.

Cheers,

R.

 

[tbarker13]

...
First, Leicas were always luxuries aimed at the rich, but they were (and are) such good cameras that quite a few professionals decided to find the money.

This is one I just don't believe. Reading some of the marketing literature from decades ago, it seems to me that the company usually kept the working pros (particularly photojournalists) in mind with its product line.

Like Roland, I won't criticize the prices. They've always been expensive compared to most other gear. But I do think the company has veered away from one of the things that - in my opinion - helped create the Leica brand.

Maybe that's because they've come to the digital game so late that it's the only feasible option - to focus first on luxury buyers and second on working photographers, instead of the other way around.

 

[Solinar]

Choose the gear that you can afford. Try not to carp about what is out of your budget. Make the best of what you have and move on.

 

[mhv]

As far as I know, when both were new, the Nikon SP cost more than the Leica M3. At least that's what a catalogue listing from the era told me.

So I don't see how Leica have "always been luxury items." A good camera has never been cheap. Is a Canon 1Ds a luxury item because it costs 8k$ ?

 

[kevin m]

First, Leicas were always luxuries aimed at the rich, but they were (and are) such good cameras that quite a few professionals decided to find the money.

Second, if you're a really successful professional, to quote the late, great Terence Donovan, "Let's face it, cameras are so f***ing cheap that you can afford a new f***ing camera for each f***ing job." This may be a slight exaggeration but if you can't lose a few thousand 'on the business' every now and then, how good a professional are you?

Wow. A two-pronged attack this time. Either we're imaging things, or we're not really pros at all. 🙄

Leica has always been expensive, but it's only recently that they've become "luxury items," which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. It's got the whiff of the poseur; the dandy; the fool and his money; the trust-fund baby, and that's the association you object to. Funny, because it's part of Leica's own marketing strategy. They're trying, actively, to give their photographic gear an appeal just beyond the reach of the hoi polloi, - a quick visit to their website will show that - and you're denying that they're doing it.

Second, their lenses are staggeringly good, but is anyone asking for that level of performance? Maybe yes, maybe no. What they are asking for is a digital platform worthy of the lenses, and the M8.2 isn't it.

 

[thomasw_]

When my father bought his first M3 back in the 60s he was not a wealthy man, but he saved and bought what he believed to be a very well built mechanical device. I think that folks of widely different social/economic status have been attracted to the functionality and form of the Ms. Again, back then, the idea was a camera for a lifetime of use. This is where I find the digital M very unlike the film Ms.

 

[Petroleum V. Nasby]

New Leicas and lenses are too expensive. Period. They are way off the scale of market reality. All the other folderol people are spouting is just rationalization.

If Leica made something people could actually buy in numbers where economy of scale would kick in, they'd be a much more powerful company.

They have lost their minds, for all practical purposes. Making excuses for them is absurd. The pricing is insane.

 

[gdi]

New Leicas and lenses are too expensive. Period. They are way off the scale of market reality. All the other folderol people are spouting is just rationalization.

If Leica made something people could actually buy in numbers where economy of scale would kick in, they'd be a much more powerful company.

They have lost their minds, for all practical purposes. Making excuses for them is absurd. The pricing is insane.

As a consumer, I think the prices are absurd. But I would argue that that simply scopes me out of their target market. To me the value is simply not there, and Leica is not looking for value conscious buyers- so tough luck for me. I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over it.

They have a pricing strategy which makes sense to them and it doesn't call for large number of sales (probably because there is no "scale" at which economies may develop), or competing with the large production companies.

No they haven't lost their minds, they just don't really care for your (or my) business..

 

[gb hill]

I don't even see Leica in business 20 years from now. Masses want DSLR's from Canon & Nikon. Not an M8.2. Masses want the latest cameraphone or a small digi that fits in a purse or pocket. Leica will survive on name reconigition for a while, til the next generation. Collectors are already driving the nail in the coffin.

 

[gb hill]

They have a pricing strategy which makes sense to them and it doesn't call for large number of sales (probably because there is no "scale" at which economies may develop), or competing with the large production companies.

No they haven't lost their minds, they just don't really care for your (or my) business..

In a tough economy leica will not survive!