oxlee
Member
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Both dust and battery life are problems of the first few weeks.... The batteries need cycling a number of times to come to full capacity and switch off auto-review! Use shutter-hold for that.
bigeye
Well-known
The bride looks as though she's made of porcelain. Beautiful.
M9 is the only fully 'acceptable' digital to me; the conversion camera. - Charlie
M9 is the only fully 'acceptable' digital to me; the conversion camera. - Charlie
oxlee
Member
jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
The way mine works it is more of a toy. I got it back from repair in NJ and they did 2 of 4 requested repairs and one of those two repairs. So the way mine holds up it is more like a toy, though a rather expensive little one. Oh, and after the repair, . . they sent it back with the focus off. Great.
While this may not pertain totally to the story, it does relate to the piece of equipment.
While this may not pertain totally to the story, it does relate to the piece of equipment.
Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
M9 photographs are for me, too clean and clearly digital, unlike the beautiful and full of character pic's from the M8.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it
oxlee
Member
I'm quite sure the M8/.2 is one fine camera too.
M9 photographs are for me, too clean and clearly digital, unlike the beautiful and full of character pic's from the M8.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it
Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
The review carries a provocative title; not sure he fulfilled its promise. But, he related his experiences in getting to know the M9, and that's fine.
I too have recent experience with an M9, after using the M8, and I find it more critical of correct focus and avoiding camera shake to reach its higher potential.
At 72dpi, the image is about 48 x 72 inches on my screen (that would be some screen, to see it all!), scaled up from 1 x 1.5 inches at the sensor. With this 48x scale-up, any error is magnified accordingly. I find it just very picky about camera shake, focus errors, optical defects, etc. Of course, viewing the image at reduced size obscures these, but it does give one pause for consideration!
I too have recent experience with an M9, after using the M8, and I find it more critical of correct focus and avoiding camera shake to reach its higher potential.
At 72dpi, the image is about 48 x 72 inches on my screen (that would be some screen, to see it all!), scaled up from 1 x 1.5 inches at the sensor. With this 48x scale-up, any error is magnified accordingly. I find it just very picky about camera shake, focus errors, optical defects, etc. Of course, viewing the image at reduced size obscures these, but it does give one pause for consideration!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
That is interesting, because the focussing is less critical on the M9. Not just a general user opinion, but an official Leica one as well.
Just my initial observations, not a rigorous comparison. I suppose it depends on how one compares. The depth of detail in the M9 files is like medium format, very impressive...
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
All four user profiles quoted are set to jpeg&DNG though.
And in the comments" And in my custom shoot modes, I shoot both DNG + JPG. Sometimes the JPG is good enough, especially for ‘snapshots’. I prefer to do minimal post-processing on the computer. It really depends on intentions, shooting JPG is not a crime.
"
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ederek
Well-known
I agree with the author on all comments.
The M9 is indeed a dust magnet. Fortunately I was prepared as I had a 5D prior to this, Canon's dust magnet. The cost of a Visible Dust sensor loop and Arctic Butterfly, plus wet cleaning kit, should be factored into the cost of getting an M9 if you don't already have these tools. +$300
The extra batteries are necessary. Also an extra charger if needing to recharge quickly. Figure 2 or 3 spares. +$300-$500
Memory cards, especially if traveling for extended time away from a computer - nice 16GB cards from known brand such as Sandisk. +$300-$400
I think the word "refer" in the following article quote is key - the jpegs are a reference when editing.
I plan to try his JPEG profiles listed in the article.
One setting not mentioned is the Exposure Adjustment. Even though I shoot in Manual mode, I have the exposure adjusted down, as the metering feedback is tied to this adjustment. Preserving highlights is key.
Another feature that is great for checking highlights in key areas of an image is the Dynamic Histogram, which changes as you zoom and pan to an image area (such as a performers face when shooting a concert in high contrast environment, or the sky in a landscape).
The M9 is indeed a dust magnet. Fortunately I was prepared as I had a 5D prior to this, Canon's dust magnet. The cost of a Visible Dust sensor loop and Arctic Butterfly, plus wet cleaning kit, should be factored into the cost of getting an M9 if you don't already have these tools. +$300
The extra batteries are necessary. Also an extra charger if needing to recharge quickly. Figure 2 or 3 spares. +$300-$500
Memory cards, especially if traveling for extended time away from a computer - nice 16GB cards from known brand such as Sandisk. +$300-$400
I think the word "refer" in the following article quote is key - the jpegs are a reference when editing.
Kevin WY Lee (Ox Lee) said:
I plan to try his JPEG profiles listed in the article.
One setting not mentioned is the Exposure Adjustment. Even though I shoot in Manual mode, I have the exposure adjusted down, as the metering feedback is tied to this adjustment. Preserving highlights is key.
Another feature that is great for checking highlights in key areas of an image is the Dynamic Histogram, which changes as you zoom and pan to an image area (such as a performers face when shooting a concert in high contrast environment, or the sky in a landscape).
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
It is not a good idea to expose to the left on the M8 or M9. Expose to the right, accept blown-out specular highlights and keep normal highlights just on the right side of overexposure. Otherwise you will run into noise problems. Read the Fraser-Schewe book Real World Image Sharpening - they devote much thought to exposure and noise control.
ederek
Well-known
Ok, there was a used copy of the book you recommended for $22 so went ahead. Sharpening is something I don't touch at this point (any image shared here in RFf), just whatever defaults are used in lightroom publishing or smugmugs rendering. I could benefit from a thorough understanding of sharpening.
I agree not to chase the Specular Highlights, those will be blown out regardless of medium.
When you say keeping highlights "on the right side of overexposure", do you mean the histogram for these areas almost reaches the right side, but not quite blown out?
Here's an example from two weeks ago where I think the balance was ok. Low ISO (to help with that noise when bumping up the shadows), but low enough exposure so the sky has good tonal range, and there is detail remaining in the white sweater (maybe a few highlights are blown as shown in the crop).
and the adjusted crop, pulling out some shadow detail but preserving the highlights (except the specular highlight in the sunglasses).
That worked because the ISO was low and the shadow detail could be pulled out (hopefully my monitor is calibrated well enough that you can see the detail in her hair).
This scene from last Friday was more difficult. ISO was 250, 1/45 sec shutter and about 2.8 with a Biogon 35. Not happy with the sky, there isn't enough tonal range left (unacceptable image quality).
Large version: http://ederek.smugmug.com/Other/RFF01/7327796_LoBTG#1089998543_vpzp2-O-LB
Didn't have a tripod and the swans were moving anyway, so getting them and the trees in distance both sharp wasn't really an option, and higher ISO with smaller aperture would have just left the shadows too noisy.
I am satisfied with the tonal range in this shot when I wasn't trying to preserve shadow details in the swans (same settings, one stop down to about f4):
Link to large version: http://ederek.smugmug.com/Other/RFF01/7327796_LoBTG#1090313925_ZLgG9-O-LB
I have more examples of tonal range in skies from yesterday, it's something I'm really focused on lately.
Also, have been shooting some scenes with both the M9 and M4 w/ TriX to compare exposure and resulting highlight and shadow detail for each medium.
Another thing I've just started to do when processing an image more with greater care (don't bother with the happy snaps) is to slide the exposure to -4 and look at what tonal range remains in the highlights, then slide it all the way to +4 to see what shadow detail is available. Then I start adjusting curves and so on..
Olsen
Well-known
" out of 4 repair issues..." What can we expect of 'repairs' going up from M8? Another Red Line?
Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
I think it's the inherant noise of the M8 coming across as film that makes the difference, where as the M9, in the name of improvement, doesn't have so much of this.
Just a thought.:angel:
I think Leica digital cameras (not panasonic), in general, have good looking noise...crisper almost grain like instead of smeared and blotchy.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The deliberately provocative title evaded the simple point: it depends on who's using it. A £5000/$7000 toy? I find it hard to imagine buying one. A £5000/$7000 tool? That I can just about manage. And it doesn't matter much whether it's a tool I earn money with, or not. It depends on how serious you are about your photography; on whether the tool is the best for the job; and on whether you can find the money (which is not necessarily the same as 'being able to afford it').
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Who really cares about noise?
Good images are a result of content, narrative and composition not noise and dynamic range.