Reviewed some scanners. In Italian, but...

Fernando2

Fernando2

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Hello,

when I have some spare time I review scanners and photo lenses for an italian photography forum.

These are technical reviews, with measurements done with appropriate charts, etc.
Not "look at these nice colorful images" reviews, and maybe a bit too long as well: they are mainly (but not only) for technical-minded users.

Reviews are in italian, but maybe (I hope!) they could still be of interest for someone, because:

1) There are quite some image crops, plots, tables, numbers which should be easy to understand

2) I can translate in english some parts: you quote here the part you are interested into, I'll translate and provide context

Please note that I do those reviews in my spare time, for free, and have no affiliations with producers, sellers, whatever (quite the contrary, indeed :p ).

In my real life, I work as an electronic engineer in the field of image processing/recognition; expecially, scanned images.
So even while I love scanners because I love film photography, I (should!) have the needed technical background for technical reviews. Or so I think! :D
I may still commit errors; by no means they are perfect reviews, but I try to actually understand (and explain) stuff and plan measures and tests accordingly; I don't believe in marketing hype, and try to explain my readers why it's in their own interest to do the same. ;)

With all that said:

Epson Photo Perfection V700
http://www.effeunoequattro.net/htdocs/freecontent/FC_ProvaV700/index.php

Nikon SuperCoolscan 8000 ED
http://www.effeunoequattro.net/htdocs/freecontent/FC_ProvaNikon8000/index.php

Minolta DIMAGE Scan Elite 5400
http://www.effeunoequattro.net/htdocs/freecontent/FC_minolta_elite/index.php

Minolta DIMAGE Scan Elite 5400 II
http://www.effeunoequattro.net/htdocs/freecontent/FC_minolta_elite2/index.php

I hope to have more to come; unfortunately, I don't receive units from producers/distributors (strange, isn't it :rolleyes: ) so I have to source the scanners myself.

NOTE TO FORUM ADMINS: if linking external reviews is forbidden, please let me know and I'll remove the links.
I did that in good faith, hoping to be useful. :angel:


Fer
 
You know your way around scanners Fernando :)

They definitely look technically very solid reviews (with Google translate help).

Would be interesting to know how your SM11K compares to i.e. the likes of Nikon/Minolta's best models with dynamic range and resolution. Although I know they're for very different purposes...

Carry on,
Margus
 
Great stuff. Given that you have extensive knowledge in the field, which would be a state of the art scanner to buy today for negs at least up to 6x9 ? I imagine one of the Imacons?
I am not interested in max speed, but rather in quality and durability - that scanner would have to last me for life...
 
For MF you can get away with the Canoscan

For 35mm get a dedicated 35mm scanner.
Please note that the Plustek scanners don't advance the film witch can become quite tedious...


For a combination of all I recommend the V700 / V750
 
tsiklonaut said:
Would be interesting to know how your SM11K compares to i.e. the likes of Nikon/Minolta's best models with dynamic range and resolution
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I'm eager to investigate the matter too. :)
I'm working on a new set of originals, to better show the differences in "real world" images.

Fer
 
mfogiel said:
which would be a state of the art scanner to buy today for negs at least up to 6x9 ? I imagine one of the Imacons?
Click to expand...

It's a tough time for film+scan lovers. :(
The only high-end scanners still produced are, AFAIK, Hasselblad/Imacons X1/X5 and maybe the Aztek Premier drum (not sure it's still produced. It was 2 years ago).

The issue with Imacons is the maximum resolution.
With 120 film they only reach 3200 ppi.
And while many self-called "experts" claim they can "resolve the grain" at 3200 ppi, this is far from true (to actually "resolve grain" you'd need 25'000 ppi or more for most modern films).
A state-of-the-art MF original requires at least 5000-5500 ppi of actual resolving power for the scanner to extract all the details.

So for 35mm I recommend X5 without a doubt, but for 120? I'm not sure.

The Aztek drum looks like a great scanner; I never had a chance to try it (nor the Howtek HR 8000 it comes from), but users brag about it. Should have great actual resolving power, great dynamic range.
But it costs an arm and a leg (it was around $40'000 2 years ago if I recall well) and in typical drum scanner fashion it's not too easy to operate. Well nothing really difficult, but not at easy as loading a Nikon filmholder.

Then there's the issue of durability in the long term.
Imacons require proper, regular maintenance.
They have belt to be replaced, dust to be cleaned, lamps to be changed. Even their flexible film holders break apart in the long time.
Who knows what's going to happen in 4-5 years? :(

This holds for the Aztek drum as well; with the added complication that less were produced vs. the Imacons (the X5 is a glorified 929).

So after this long talk, I really don't know what to say.

Actually, I hope Plustek get their acts together and design an improved Opticfilm 120 II :) with some kind of focus adjustment and a vastly improved firmware :p , because on good units, performances are really interesting.
Still waiting for Plustek to send me a demo unit, but I suspect it's not going to happen (already wrote 2 times. Maybe they did not like my critics? :cool: ).

Fer
 
Thanks Fernando, it looks like for the moment I am better off holding on to my CS9000. I just hope, that as technology gets cheaper, someone will be able to make a competent scanner for dedicated "film nostalgics"...
 
I agree with you about the CS 9000.

And, I don't think it's an impossible task to develop a proper scanner. Maybe using an area imager (camera-type sensor, XY coverage with automatic stitching).
It could be doable as a crowdfunded project (Kickstarter), I think.

Fer
 
Fernando2 said:
I agree with you about the CS 9000.

And, I don't think it's an impossible task to develop a proper scanner. Maybe using an area imager (camera-type sensor, XY coverage with automatic stitching).
It could be doable as a crowdfunded project (Kickstarter), I think.
Click to expand...

Always thought a community based drumscanner project would be way better direction than any CCD rig that you can do the same or even better with a regular digital photocamera and a good 1:1 lens, but that's just IMHO.

A drum scanner DIY project would be more costly for sure (i.e. source Hamamatsu PMTs and modules, have the electronics guys design a control board and AD signal processing into USB or Firewire protocols, use commonly available DC and step-motors, xenon lamps and fiber optics that are widely available, utilize drums from cheaper clear glass tubes that you can end-cap and balance with DIY bench (no need to use crazy-$$$ Prazio acryl) get some modern Vuescan or Silverfast software to support it). Even if it does some realistic 5000-6000ppi around 4 Dmax with cheaper parts the PMTs pixel-by-pixel rendering and quality would be way more "analog-like" if you compare even the best CCD "stiching" scanners (that would probably cost way more!) to a good, not even excellent drum scanners. If it could be possible to squeeze the building cost to some $3000-5000 range. Ideally would be nice to share one scanner between some 2-5 photographers as a community project since you do not need the scanner every day unless you provide service. Basically to give keen analog photographers a chance to scan their work in dream-like quality w/o braking a bank :)

IMHO of course,
Margus
 
Yes, a drum scan kickstarter project would be great, I dream about it sometimes!
But as you say, it still needs fine hardware and very high mechanical accuracy, it would be quite costly in the end.
A XY stitching scanner using an area imager (not like the Creo/Fuji/Screen stitchers, that is: they use a line imager which requires very high precision and extra-tight tolerances) could be surprisingly cheap. Truth be told, I even tried some little experiments in XY stitching with promising results (but can't do more than that, for lack of spare time).

That said, I'd still LOVE a new drum scanner product! Even at $5000-6000 it could still interest many people. If one could bundle a simple-but-effective mounting station and a good video tutorial, even inexperienced people could use it from day one.

Fer
 
Fernando2 said:
That said, I'd still LOVE a new drum scanner product! Even at $5000-6000 it could still interest many people. If one could bundle a simple-but-effective mounting station and a good video tutorial, even inexperienced people could use it from day one.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exacly, it'd revamp many ex-analog photographers back into analog since the PMT rendering does so much "analog-like" than any CCD I've seen, IMO. Cibachrome is gone, nothing replaces E6 with its looks and there's no way of good trannie printing other than excellent scanning since digital printing technology as improved a lot. I'm a good example on this since some years ago I was about to give up film with constant dissapointments of CCD, high-end included, scanning never bringing the results I liked. Getting into drum scanning was like a revolution for me literally, both as an artist and quality nutter in me. Suddenly all of my digital camera gear that I've invested a lot into started to collect dust on the shelf since my analog work 'fired into life' in the way as I've always wanted it to be.



Even 5-6K for such "DIY" drum scanner would be very attractive indeed. The most expensive R&D would be control board electronics that would have to be sourced from electronics company, to prepare the protocols roughly compatible with i.e. Vue or Silverfast platforms. I get almost every week a "begging" e-mail from from a company in China who specializes custom board designs offering 'anything you want' out of electronics boards, I'm pretty confident they'd design various boards (i.e. A/D+control+interface in one board, add auto-focus- and aperture motor control capability to the same board) for reasonable price that you can also make firmware modifiable as it evolves. The rest - mechanically basically deisigning and building a "Vespa" philosophy of simple yet reliably solid and capable drum scanner mostly utilizing commonly available bits from better quality electronics catalogues, high-precision bearings and metal engineering bits. Those few specialized bits, such as PMT and PMT modules, sensor head+optics shouldn't be a show stopper, since Hamamatsu stuff is also availabe in catalogues and Zeiss, Fujinon, Olympus etc good reputation optics manufacturers have different high quality "utility lenses" for different purposes (i.e. for imaging, medical gear, microscopes etc) in their catalogues that you can source from their retailers. Drum mounting table is 100% DIY-able job for even "average Joe" IMO.

Would be a fantastic community project to design this kind of DIY beast for the keen analog photographers and artists :)

Margus
 
Fernando,
In your review of the Epson V700 you mention about locks to ship the scanner safely. Do you know how this locks can be restored? I need to ship my V600 scanner.
Thank you.

Luca
 
Hi Luca,
on the V700 there are cursors on the upper part and on the lower part. They lock the lower carriage (mirror) and the upper carriage (lamp).
But I'm not sure the V600 is similar: never seen one.
 
Grazie Fernando.
I found the lock and shipped the scanner. Good that I saw it in your write out, I probably would have forgotten about that.
Great reviews on the scanners, by the way. Let's hope you'll get a chance to review the Plustek 120.
It is still a very tempting option.
 
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