Bill Pierce
Well-known
A lot of the digital shooters here were film rangefinder shooters who, even though they had entered the digital realm before the appearance of a digital rangefinder and were now shooting with DSLR’s, were very excited when the digital Leica appeared. Sadly, a lot of folks found them too expensive to mount a multi-body system with a range of lenses. There were others who had other gripes, but price, even that of a single body that would use already owned lenses, was probably the number one impediment.
There are a lot of folks looking for a less expensive alternative. And Sony, Fuji and Ricoh have introduced, and are introducing in the future, relatively compact non-mirror cameras with APS C sensors. Sony and Ricoh have bodies that can accept Leica lenses. But, to pick what “economical rangefinder substitute” is right for you, you have to know what appeals to you in a rangefinder camera. Size and weight? Bright line finder? Quiet and inconspicuous? Good viewing and focusing in dim light? Good performance at large f/stops? Your lens collection? Image quality?
For me, it’s easy. I like bright line finders; so, I just put my Leica and Voigtlander finders in the accessory shoes of everything from big Canon DSLR’s to their little G series. To be honest, I even bought an accessory shoe that screwed in to the tripod socket on an S90. In some cases the frame ratio doesn’t match the sensor format exactly. On the street, I don’t care. The camera comes to my eye and goes back down again so quickly, that I’d be a fool to think I was framing exactly.
More cameras are coming out that have many of the advantages of the rangefinder camera except for rangefinder focusing. But to pick among them, you really have to know what features were important to you in the rangefinder world. I don’t think the whole world is a bunch of bright-line junkies. That’s my obsession. But, I’d love to know what yours is. And, if you have found or heard of a camera,that may satisfy it, that I’d really like to hear about.
There are a lot of folks looking for a less expensive alternative. And Sony, Fuji and Ricoh have introduced, and are introducing in the future, relatively compact non-mirror cameras with APS C sensors. Sony and Ricoh have bodies that can accept Leica lenses. But, to pick what “economical rangefinder substitute” is right for you, you have to know what appeals to you in a rangefinder camera. Size and weight? Bright line finder? Quiet and inconspicuous? Good viewing and focusing in dim light? Good performance at large f/stops? Your lens collection? Image quality?
For me, it’s easy. I like bright line finders; so, I just put my Leica and Voigtlander finders in the accessory shoes of everything from big Canon DSLR’s to their little G series. To be honest, I even bought an accessory shoe that screwed in to the tripod socket on an S90. In some cases the frame ratio doesn’t match the sensor format exactly. On the street, I don’t care. The camera comes to my eye and goes back down again so quickly, that I’d be a fool to think I was framing exactly.
More cameras are coming out that have many of the advantages of the rangefinder camera except for rangefinder focusing. But to pick among them, you really have to know what features were important to you in the rangefinder world. I don’t think the whole world is a bunch of bright-line junkies. That’s my obsession. But, I’d love to know what yours is. And, if you have found or heard of a camera,that may satisfy it, that I’d really like to hear about.
MikeL
Go Fish
Another bright-line finder junky here. I admitted this when I paid big dough for the Zeiss 28-25 and Voigtlander SWC finders after looking through them. The view matters enough to me.
For my walk-around camera, I scale-focus a 28mm lens on a Leica Standard with the Zeiss finder. On a Panasonic GF-1, I use the 28mm lens with a 50mm finder, and it is pretty close. The adapter is a little off though, so scale-focusing doesn't work quite right. When I need to work quick, scale-focusing with a bright-line finder is the fastest for me.
stratcat
Well-known
I enjoy the brightline finders too, but it is the combination of the finder and the instantaneous action of the shutter release that I truly like; I hate it when my digitals take their time to actually snap the picture or sometimes even outright refuse to shoot because they couldn't lock into focus or some other thing.
Now, if you add to that a fast lens, then that's where my REAL addiction resides. My budget does not go up to Nokton, Noctilux or Canon LTM heights, but I get my fix mostly from my fixed lens Yashicas.
Now, if you add to that a fast lens, then that's where my REAL addiction resides. My budget does not go up to Nokton, Noctilux or Canon LTM heights, but I get my fix mostly from my fixed lens Yashicas.
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
I actually prefer SLR focusing to RF focusing. Getting something into focus instead of lining up a bright patch with your subject feels far more natural.
However, size, sharp lenses and stealth do it for me. No mirror slap! RFs are actually more suited to my style of photography than SLRs.
But of course there is the fact that I can get a closet full of deeply excellent and far more versatile Nikon SLRs for the price of one Leica M...
However, size, sharp lenses and stealth do it for me. No mirror slap! RFs are actually more suited to my style of photography than SLRs.
But of course there is the fact that I can get a closet full of deeply excellent and far more versatile Nikon SLRs for the price of one Leica M...
semordnilap
Well-known
Bright lines, RF patch, and small size. I don't care for focusing DSLRs–I find it much less accurate and consistent–but I really prefer manual focus to AF.
I'm hopeful that this NEX-7 can be a good middle ground–obviously it doesn't have bright lines, but sticking an accessory finder on top is surely an option. Honestly I'm primarily hopeful about using it in low light... I'm still very happy with my M8 up to iso 640, and expect to keep using it until it is no more.
I'm hopeful that this NEX-7 can be a good middle ground–obviously it doesn't have bright lines, but sticking an accessory finder on top is surely an option. Honestly I'm primarily hopeful about using it in low light... I'm still very happy with my M8 up to iso 640, and expect to keep using it until it is no more.
randolph45
Well-known
G5
G5
You have given me something to try using my briteline finders on my Canon G5 or other film cameras I have . the thought really never occured to me to try this.
As I don't like using cameras without a view finder. In fact the only time I use the LCD back on my G5 is in low or pole mounted position using the articulated screen.
G5
You have given me something to try using my briteline finders on my Canon G5 or other film cameras I have . the thought really never occured to me to try this.
As I don't like using cameras without a view finder. In fact the only time I use the LCD back on my G5 is in low or pole mounted position using the articulated screen.
MikeL
Go Fish
randolph45, can you set the autofocus on the G5 to center focus? I've done this with the GF-1 and 20mm AF lens. Half-press when the focal object is centered in the bright-line finder, wait for the AF/AE beep, take the photo.
Graham Line
Well-known
Wonder if there's a market for a fold-up wire-frame finder?
I look for a wide lens, high speed, good performance above ISO800, and a fast write rate.
I look for a wide lens, high speed, good performance above ISO800, and a fast write rate.
randolph45
Well-known
Brite finder
Brite finder
MikeL
I haven't tryed the brite finder on the G5 yet,but a half press will set the focus so you can reframe your shot
Brite finder
MikeL
I haven't tryed the brite finder on the G5 yet,but a half press will set the focus so you can reframe your shot
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Yep, another fan of bright RF patch, compact lenses and slim bodies here.
Teashop
Member
The thing I've struggled to adapt to with any digital camera (CSC or DSLR) is the interface. I am 'wedded' to the simplicity and instantaneous response of film Rangefinder usage so the only 'easy' alternative for me is the M9 (which I've played with in various stores since it's release but have so far felt unable to justify). I love the heft of hardware that's built to last and the familiarity of predictably repeatable results.Overcoming my ignorance of how I'd structure a satisfactory digital workflow to achieve those results, and how I'd pay for the hardware has exercised me for many months. I've been close to buying a CSC to try out the methodology more than once but have always stopped short.
I don't want to part with my M lenses or the ease of using them which has given me so much pleasure over the last 16 years or so. I've seen the excellent results posted by RFF members from their CSCs and similar platforms but to be honest, I just want more of what I've had from the film camera years. The 'user experience' is a more important part of the picture-making process than I'd been willing to admit, but as an amateur user the additional investment is hard to swallow. I shall continue to shoot film for as long as possible (but without access to a darkroom or high grade scanner it will become lincreasingly inconvenient to have prints in my hand). The bottom line may well be that at some point I shall just have to bite the bullet and buy the M9/10/11. Until then, I'll watch every other development with great interest.
I don't want to part with my M lenses or the ease of using them which has given me so much pleasure over the last 16 years or so. I've seen the excellent results posted by RFF members from their CSCs and similar platforms but to be honest, I just want more of what I've had from the film camera years. The 'user experience' is a more important part of the picture-making process than I'd been willing to admit, but as an amateur user the additional investment is hard to swallow. I shall continue to shoot film for as long as possible (but without access to a darkroom or high grade scanner it will become lincreasingly inconvenient to have prints in my hand). The bottom line may well be that at some point I shall just have to bite the bullet and buy the M9/10/11. Until then, I'll watch every other development with great interest.
dct
perpetual amateur
Fully agree. I'm exactly in the same ballpark as most of RF users... I know, I will get the NEX-7 (or equivalent) one day. The goodies are marvellous. What keeps me hesitating is the EVF tunnel TTL view. Additional field of view around a bright frame line is obviously not possible without a dedicated optical viewfinder. Maybe the Fuji X??? will include this with their hybrid technology?
After all I will buy a R-D1 or a M8 and forget all the advantages of new technology...
My head is spinning!
JayM
Well-known
I like brightline finders a lot, and even though I zone focus most of the time I find the RF patch to work better for me than SLRs do.
I could probably get away with something like a GRD or m4/3 with a brightline finder on it, but when I actually needed to focus the LCD thing would irritate me.
I could probably get away with something like a GRD or m4/3 with a brightline finder on it, but when I actually needed to focus the LCD thing would irritate me.
I like optical finders, yet have to admit mostly using the articulated rear screen of my old Canon G3 in preference to its tiny dim viewfinder. But then I'm also mostly using it at close range where finder parallax is a problem.
Otherwise, I'm happy to use either an SLR or a viewfinder type camera, as both have their strong points in different circumstances. But with the digital types of those, I don't look at their rear screens while out shooting.
Otherwise, I'm happy to use either an SLR or a viewfinder type camera, as both have their strong points in different circumstances. But with the digital types of those, I don't look at their rear screens while out shooting.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Without a doubt, it's the VF/RF. I love and rely on being able to see, clearly in any light, around the frameline as well as the focus patch; then I love the tactile feel of coincident rangefinder focusing.
But I've given up on following Leica down the road of digital M upgrades. Pessimistically, I expect that in the future it's going to be M lenses on mirrorless something for me, while I mostly use film and the M8 at low ISO for my RF enjoyment; optimistically, I think it won't be long before an alternative dRF appears to go with the mirrorless something. Market conditions are ripe for an alternative dRF (so saying, heads for quick exit...).
But I've given up on following Leica down the road of digital M upgrades. Pessimistically, I expect that in the future it's going to be M lenses on mirrorless something for me, while I mostly use film and the M8 at low ISO for my RF enjoyment; optimistically, I think it won't be long before an alternative dRF appears to go with the mirrorless something. Market conditions are ripe for an alternative dRF (so saying, heads for quick exit...).
Hatch
Established
If you like instantaneous shutter response, try the NEX 7.
I shot with it for only 10 min. but that alone was enough to convince me to buy the thing.
If it had focus confirm like Nikon combined with the focus peaking it would solve most of my digital needs.
zauhar
Veteran
Another vote for frame lines and instant shutter response. Simplicity too. Those were the reasons I chose an RF when I got back into photography.
"Shutter lag" is the main reason I cannot tolerate digital cameras. (But I will at least look at the NEX 7 after seeing Hatch's remark.)
Randy
"Shutter lag" is the main reason I cannot tolerate digital cameras. (But I will at least look at the NEX 7 after seeing Hatch's remark.)
Randy
Fotohuis
Well-known
Indeed, fast and acurate.
My most used cameras: Leica M7 and the C.V. Bessa III 667 range finder cameras. I like the 6x7cm roll film format also very much. Enlagements in split grade till 40x50cm without any problem on both cameras only with different film speed.
Cyriljay
Leica Like
My best favourite cameras are Leica M and my first camera being M6 i embraced the concept throughly soon after I had it. Now I own M8u and my M6 is my back-up negative camera. In between i like to use X-Pan 11 when i want to see things in panoramic view