RFF Censorship?

Having had a few bad experiences on ebay, the 'scam alert' forum was great to bitch and whine and warn others of bad sellers. Just as in real life you warn people off of shops where you might have bad service or get ripped off.

The forum was like an ebay condom - better to have it and not need it, then end up with an ugly baby after 9 months of waiting.
 
endustry said:
Maybe Google will become the Ebay killer, too. We'll see.
Click to expand...

Now that's a possibility that hadn't occurred to me - wouldn't that be interesting. Like Jim Morrison is puported to have said, "I'm not talking about a revolution...I'm talking about having a good time."

As an aside, endustry, I liked your static HTML "signpost" complaint method.


Cheers,
--joe.
 
endustry said:
As Trius points out, I think the conflict of interest between Stephen being a retailer himself probably has more to do with it than we're led to believe. Ebay loves to sue people and Stephen's ass is the only one on the line.
...
Click to expand...

That's a lame excuse. If he's using that as a reasoning for deleting an entire forum and hundreds of member posts, then he shouldn't own the forum or he should train his moderators to distinguish and ferret-out any bit of potentially litigious comments. Better yet, maybe he should hire lawyers to moderate his forum. Online forums like this are built upon opinion and "rumor-mongering,“ and besides what was the litigious content within that forum that justified deleting ALL of it?

That line of reasoning suggests one thing: we can expect more post deletions.
 
As a frequent buyer on eBay and now going back to selling again, this truly is a doubt edge issue. It is dangerous for Stephen to own this site, sell on eBay, sell direct and have folks post what could be inflammatory stuff about eBay.

eBay is floundering from their own success. They are branching out into areas where they can increase their growth and are not fixing some of the underlying problem that they are experiencing. Dispute resolution is a very hard thing for the courts (in any country) to handle, let alone some low paid person. eBay should have dispute info emailed to everyone who bids (costs them almost nothing) so that you know there are time limits and limits to what they will do.

I bought a 28/2.2 AIs lens from down under, good seller from his rating, paid a fair price (read not my best deal, but not the highest price they went for at the time). When it got here the aperture was way to slow to use in an SLR. I took it to the local Nikon shop (being in Chicago it was the old Nikon establishment that now is spun off to a private person/group). They said it needed to be rebuilt, $80. That put the total cost well above the going price for NIB ones. I tried to explain to the seller, he did not answer at first. But when he did stated it was in great shape when it left, I was SOL. It was shipped via slow boat and could have been damaged (read baked to a crackly crunch) during transit (several weeks). I have no way to prove it was DBS (dead before shipment), but I knew I was on the hook. He did not provide me feedback for the transaction waiting to see what I would say. This unfortunately is a sign (IMHO) of a bad seller. Perhaps a burned seller, but there is no way easy way to see if this is a pattern on eBay. As I have 100% positive, I did not want to chance him slamming me, no way. I work hard being a far buyer and seller.

I had another transaction where before I even got the wrong camera (close, a Black F2 Photomic rather than a Chrome F2A) the sell refunded all my money and let me keep the camera.

I like the idea of asking people for their opinion of an item before you bid, but there are two issues. Often, many of us are looking for the same thing (e.g. User Nikon SP, Mint 75 ‘Lux) and we are opening up what could be our competitors eye to something we hope to get a fair deal on. Some times there is not time to wait for reply, you might find something in the last 10 mins of bidding. But it is better than nothing.

Perhaps what eBay should have is another rating tool in addition to the feedback. It should be a ratio, the number of items sold + won over the number of feedbacks given. This would tell you if there is potentially issues with folks not wanting a black mark back in their rating too.

I know there are ways to get black marks removed (if they are truly not fair) but I’m about as sure that works as I am the current rating system give you a complete picture.

B2 (;->
(a man going back to selling on eBay)
 
As a frequent buyer on eBay and now going back to selling again, this truly is a doubt edge issue. It is dangerous for Stephen to own this site, sell on eBay, sell direct and have folks post what could be inflammatory stuff about eBay.

eBay is floundering from their own success. They are branching out into areas where they can increase their growth and are not fixing some of the underlying problem that they are experiencing. Dispute resolution is a very hard thing for the courts (in any country) to handle, let alone some low paid person. eBay should have dispute info emailed to everyone who bids (costs them almost nothing) so that you know there are time limits and limits to what they will do.

I bought a 28/2.2 AIs lens from down under, good seller from his rating, paid a fair price (read not my best deal, but not the highest price they went for at the time). When it got here the aperture was way to slow to use in an SLR. I took it to the local Nikon shop (being in Chicago it was the old Nikon establishment that now is spun off to a private person/group). They said it needed to be rebuilt, $80. That put the total cost well above the going price for NIB ones. I tried to explain to the seller, he did not answer at first. But when he did stated it was in great shape when it left, I was SOL. It was shipped via slow boat and could have been damaged (read baked to a crackly crunch) during transit (several weeks). I have no way to prove it was DBS (dead before shipment), but I knew I was on the hook. He did not provide me feedback for the transaction waiting to see what I would say. This unfortunately is a sign (IMHO) of a bad seller. Perhaps a burned seller, but there is no way easy way to see if this is a pattern on eBay. As I have 100% positive, I did not want to chance him slamming me, no way. I work hard being a far buyer and seller.

I had another transaction where before I even got the wrong camera (close, a Black F2 Photomic rather than a Chrome F2A) the sell refunded all my money and let me keep the camera.

I like the idea of asking people for their opinion of an item before you bid, but there are two issues. Often, many of us are looking for the same thing (e.g. User Nikon SP, Mint 75 ‘Lux) and we are opening up what could be our competitors eye to something we hope to get a fair deal on. Some times there is not time to wait for reply, you might find something in the last 10 mins of bidding. But it is better than nothing.

Perhaps what eBay should have is another rating tool in addition to the feedback. It should be a ratio, the number of items sold + won over the number of feedbacks given. This would tell you if there is potentially issues with folks not wanting a black mark back in their rating too.

I know there are ways to get black marks removed (if they are truly not fair) but I’m about as sure that works as I am the current rating system give you a complete picture.

B2 (;->
(a man going back to selling on eBay)
 
I love technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology, technology!

Sorry about the double post.

B2 (;->
 
RayPA said:
That's a lame excuse. If he's using that as a reasoning for deleting an entire forum and hundreds of member posts, then he shouldn't own the forum or he should train his moderators to distinguish and ferret-out any bit of potentially litigious comments. Better yet, maybe he should hire lawyers to moderate his forum. Online forums like this are built upon opinion and "rumor-mongering,“ and besides what was the litigious content within that forum that justified deleting ALL of it?

That line of reasoning suggests one thing: we can expect more post deletions.
Click to expand...


that is not the reason stephen gave, please read what stephen has already posted on this thread.
 
Last edited:
This new policy can only make things worse for folks who want to talk about photos.


jon,
before this gets out of hand.
this is NOT a policy.
as mod, everyday i clean up the forum.
i delete nasty and personal comments, i move threads to the most appropriate section and this is sometimes a judgement call. some are easier than others.
when someone asks about the price of the new 50 elmar m lens and the post is in the fsu section then it's an easy call.
i know the the pics that are chosen were not part of a project. the 'picking/selecting/posting of those has become a project though, at least that is what it seems to me.
and when i visit the forum i immediately hit 'new posts' so i see all that has happened since i was last here. i assume many also do this.

anyway, it's not a big deal to me, only clean up, and if folks want it under general discussion i can let them stay there.

maybe we need a section for all things photographic but not gear related.

joe
 
It's OK, Bill ... we expect as much since you are B2 ... 😀

Any transaction is subject to caveat emptor, and when it is on-line, doubly/triply so.

I do think there should be some sort of online consumer alert forum/site for auctions, etc. After all, people post their experiences with sellers on all sorts of site, e.g. bizrate, etc. But I don't think Stephen (or anyone who is owner/admin) is under any obligation to make RFF that forum.

The one negative I have on evilBay was because a seller did not ship anywhere near the date he promised in a private email. I left negative feedback, even though it was a mistake; I had meant to leave neutral feedback.

He said I'd be hearing from his lawyer, but I never did. His threat didn't bother me. He was going to sick his lawyer on me for a $5 item? Right.

Whatever the pros and cons here, Stephen has his own reasoning and I think we have to live with it and move on.
 
back alley:


Thank you. I do understand your position here and appreciate all the hard work you put in.

This will not get out of hand. It's just that us people who appreciate good photos would rather see our regular thread up at the front and not lost around the back.

There is no big problem here, and I'm certain we can understand each other and reach a solution.
 
back alley said:
that is not the reason stephen gave, please read what stephen has already posted on this thread.
Click to expand...

Read my post there's a big ol' "IF" in there. I'm responding to replies from other members.

.
 
FWIW, I get the same message as Keith...

Not that I care, as I think the forum owner has a right do do as he pleases. Some folks here would be pissed if they came to my house and I offered them a free beer. They would probably want champagne.
 
photogdave said:
I guess you have to be a "premium member" to see it. I can't.
Click to expand...

No, that's not it. I was able to see it three hours ago, but not now. I guess the new owner has decided to delete it (or at least stop anyone from seeing it -same result) after all. Personally, I find that disappointing.
 
Ebay does not reflect the buyers' real atitudes to the sellers. It is very easy for a seller to remove unflattering comments from ebay. Secondly, there is no law enforcement mechanism set up anywhere, including the USA, to deal with fraudulent sales, especially over the internet. State office Consumer affairs will contact the seller. If the seller does not wish to resolve the complaint there is nothing that they can be done by them. There are no Federal Laws...sorry I just contact the Federal Government and made that inquiry. They said on normal sales, i. e. one on one, there are NONE, NADA. They do not get involve. International sales are worse. In the USA if you pay by credit card your credit card company has some leverage. On international sales the charge to the buyer could be higher than the initial cost of the item, therefore on small items, usually under $100, it is better to let the seller keep your money. There is one site www.resellerratings.com (I have come across it recently.) that is much more accurate than ebay ratings on the same seller. I have no comment either way concerning the removal of the threads.
 
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