Technically yes, in practice...debatable.
videogamemaker
Well-known
I shoot with a 5D I myself. I'd never trade it for an M-mount GXR either. I was saying that it's out as a comparison of what price points can be met. An old Bessa is a great camera too, it doesn't mean that the Ebay price of one amounts to a hill of beans when talking about an Epson RD-2 in price.
Those numbers were pulled out of my ass, but you're fooling yourself if you think that Ricoh has ever sold even 1/20 the units Canon or Nikon has on their most popular cameras (of which both 5Ds and the D700 qualify).
Sorry, no. If Ricoh were to make a full frame M-mount, they would be starting from scratch. To declare otherwise is outright false. To even begin to say they are at a comparable point as Canon making the 5D II from the 5D I's platform is laughably ignorant.
videogamemaker
Well-known
Maybe debatable to you, but there are plenty of people who want a fast moderate wide, a fast normal, and a fast short telephoto without breaking the bank. This is much more possible on any full frame platform, be it Nikon, Canon, Leica, or Sony, than it is with any crop option.
regularchickens
Well-known
This is cool. I'm glad that convention-floor mockup is coming to fruition. And more choice is always a good thing. I'd buy a body with Ricoh controls over NEX controls any day of the week.
gavinlg
Veteran
I'm not suggesting the m4/3 mount to use leica lenses, I'm suggesting it to use the native m4/3 lenses, of which there are 20+ of them, and they're all high quality and designed for the sensor size. The problem with M mount lenses on a crop sensor is if you want a fast 35mm equiv lens you have to use a 24mm - of which the only fast one on the M mount market is the f1.4 summilux which is more than an m8 to buy. Forget about a fast 28...
I understand there are heaps of people that will welcome this, I'm just speaking from my experience with crop sensors/35mm lenses.
I have a 28mm f/2.5 on my Ricoh. That's faster than most options for the M. I udnerstand what you are saying, but most fast glass is expensive.
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Ah, I see... my mistake. However, there are plenty of m4/3 bodies already to choose from, so why fret over this not being implemented by Ricoh?
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Just a comment on the forest, rather than the trees:
1) Any time the makers of the new "film" (that is, digital sensors) provide an option for using the existing stock of interesting glass, this is a good thing and should be applauded.
2) Any time a camera maker takes a risk and thinks outside the box to produce something other than a "me too" feature set, this is a good thing, and should be applauded.
3) Any time a proof-of-concept camera makes it into production, thereby showing other camera makers what can be done, this too is a good thing and should be applauded.
How about a round of applause for Ricoh?
If you are not impressed, don't buy one.
If you are holding out for FF, don't buy one.
If you are satisfied with film, don't buy one.
If you think it is ugly, don't buy one.
Hell, I have so many cameras, I probably won't buy one; but I'm tickled three shades of pink that someone is out there doing this. Why? I can easily imagine a system with a drop-in module for high-ISO's, a B&W module with a tri-x, Neopan 1600 settings, a wide angle module that can deal with edge fall-off and has an firmware center-filter, etc. etc. Can you imagine a modular Red-One type system in 20 years that allows you to scale your format or replace a damaged sensor?
I've got my oil-miniscus lenses trained on a spot outside the box, boys. Who's with me?
Ben
1) Any time the makers of the new "film" (that is, digital sensors) provide an option for using the existing stock of interesting glass, this is a good thing and should be applauded.
2) Any time a camera maker takes a risk and thinks outside the box to produce something other than a "me too" feature set, this is a good thing, and should be applauded.
3) Any time a proof-of-concept camera makes it into production, thereby showing other camera makers what can be done, this too is a good thing and should be applauded.
How about a round of applause for Ricoh?
If you are not impressed, don't buy one.
If you are holding out for FF, don't buy one.
If you are satisfied with film, don't buy one.
If you think it is ugly, don't buy one.
Hell, I have so many cameras, I probably won't buy one; but I'm tickled three shades of pink that someone is out there doing this. Why? I can easily imagine a system with a drop-in module for high-ISO's, a B&W module with a tri-x, Neopan 1600 settings, a wide angle module that can deal with edge fall-off and has an firmware center-filter, etc. etc. Can you imagine a modular Red-One type system in 20 years that allows you to scale your format or replace a damaged sensor?
I've got my oil-miniscus lenses trained on a spot outside the box, boys. Who's with me?
Ben
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umcelinho
Marcelo
The Ricohs have the BEST handling on a compact I've ever seen. If the image quality is good, it will be a quite interesting option!
Truth.....
Still bull**** and doesnt make more sense by repeating it.
The system and hardware backup is there, the user interface is there, the form factor is there, all they need is a large enough sensor in the box they already have. They could also just take a damn M9 apart. Thats not "starting from scratch".
gavinlg
Veteran
Well, thats true too... Look at it this way - if you were in the market for a compact digital w/interchangeable lenses, would you buy into the m4/3 system or the ricoh gxr interchangeable module system that supports m4/3 AND aps-c ricoh GR lenses.... The m4/3 module was actually rumored alongside the M mount module for a while, so it still might come.
Maybe I'm just talking rubbish now... haha.
I actually agree with what Mr Marks said above - I shouldn't be criticizing ricoh, I should be in admiration of them. They always seem to take fairly bold steps to please real photographers. On a major positive note, I'd love to see how the voigtlander 35mm f1.2 and 50mm f1.1 perform on a gxr!!
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Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
This seems to me to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Economy of scale both in procurement and in offsetting development costs. If you think Ricoh can expect to sell anywhere as many GXR M-mount units as Canon and Nikon have been selling 5Ds and D700s, you are seriously deluded.
Ever wonder why the M9 is expensive, even though in your words "the system and hardware backup is there, the user interface is there, the form factor is there, all they need is a large enough sensor in the box they already have?" And comparing a newly-announced device with a used mass-produced product of six years ago is kind of pointless.
I know that among online photo gear enthusiasts there is a strong collective belief that swarm intelligence and wishful thinking trumps basic economics, engineering and market research, but it's not like the company in question here has some kind of bizarre religious commitment to crop sensors. If they find that at some point it makes sense economically to make a full frame unit, they'll probably make one. Until then I suggest we just wait.
alien8
Established
+1
I'd love to have a digital option for my m glass, but to my mind crop sensors are not a serious option for full frame lenses. Anyhoo, at this point it's more or less a dream that i've given up on. I got my dslr stolen from my apartment a few months ago and currently have no digital camera (save my iphone). I'm toying with the idea of the fuji that's about to hit the market, but i doubt i'll end up springing for it (a bit pricey for a single focal length). I'm hoping the EVIL category matures a bit and a couple of models really aimed at semi-pro/enthusiasts show up. Keep hearing rumours about nikon but I'm not holding my breath.
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Me too... I'll be buying the 1.1 soon and that was my first thought when I saw this module.
That might be fair, but I'm sure Ricoh did this as a labor of love more than as a profit making machine. That said, these cameras are doing well in Japan and you know the Japanese are Leica crazy.
hexiplex
Well-known
I've been glancing at the GXR for a while now and this module might just tip the scale towards "buy", depending on what it sells for. I really like the idea of a relatively small digital camera with the same or similar interface as the GRD series that can accomodate my M and LTM glass.
Will Ricoh make money off of this? Yes, I am quite positive that they will. the GRD (and I assume the GXR) cameras are very popular in Japan, and the popularity of Ricoh coupled with the Leica craze will no doubt make this an attractive bit of kit. Anyway, I hope we'll see Ricoh re-launching their GR lens in M-mount at a somewhat reasonable price in conjunction with the release of this module.
Will Ricoh make money off of this? Yes, I am quite positive that they will. the GRD (and I assume the GXR) cameras are very popular in Japan, and the popularity of Ricoh coupled with the Leica craze will no doubt make this an attractive bit of kit. Anyway, I hope we'll see Ricoh re-launching their GR lens in M-mount at a somewhat reasonable price in conjunction with the release of this module.
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That would be awesome.
ampguy
Veteran
I think this new announcement is great. Depending on how it all pans out with the sensor quality, interface, evf, pricing and all, it could be a great digital back for m/ltm lens.