Sierra Club
Established
Not everyone can afford Zeiss lenses.
Not all lenses other than Zeiss are inferior.
nzeeman
Well-known
Come on man, really? Imagine what Leica Q and Q2 users must feel then!
they feel depressed when they see this im sure - moustache distortion on beloved leica :'(
https://m.dpreview.com/news/8207462192/spot-the-differences-comparing-a-430-35mm-f1-4-7artisans-lens-to-leica-s-5-895-summilux-m
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
In a nutshell, you get what you pay for. If you are happy with it, at that price point, then that's great. From the look of it, reading your brief assessment on build quality, the image quality from a few snaps viewed on a computer screen, and from user reviews I've seen about this an other lenses from this maker, I'll pass, but that is my personal decision. If it works for someone else, that is fantastic, it's just not for me, and it looks like not for a few other people as well. But don't let others' personal lens decisions or their assessment of the lens which you happened to choose make you angry. Just go make images with it and be happy.
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
Archlich
Well-known
What's a 'Risespray'?
Another Chinese pop-up workshop?
Just curious.
Another brand from yet another vender.
A 35/1.2 lens from Kaxinda shares an identical construction with the Risepray, but with one less lens group (8 elements in 6 groups vs 5 groups). Wonder if that's the real case or just typo or, they just don't care.
No less than 10 brands have an APS-C 35/1.2 lens in one of perhaps 4 or 5 styles. To those who bothered to do a side-to-side comparison, the weird thing is they're not really the same. No idea if the difference came from optical construction ("7 slices in 5 groups" vs "6 pieces in 5 groups") or sample variation, or both.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Funny you mention the optical construction differences. I'm wondering if it is a marketing ploy since the raytrace doesn't change between 8 elements and 5 groups vs 6 groups if the refractive index of the elements in the respective groups is not different. If you cement two crown glass elements together, they act as one single element. Then again, who knows what an element or a group is to these lens designers, and are they responsible for actually reporting the formula?
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
nzeeman
Well-known
i was annoying most of brands to send me lens scheme and i got quite a few... yes they are mostly different-but this one for example is same and pergear and new 7artisans (according to my research..) , i think kaxinda is different, old 7artisans also...
nzeeman
Well-known
my point is that you dont get what you pay for in case of leica for example - you pay 10 times more for summilux and get worse or same results as that 7artisans... i dont t think slightly prettier design is worth it... same goes for noctilux that i saw in tests against ttartisan 50/0.95 and im not sure if its any better. also people buy voigtlander 35/1.4 with worst barrel distortion on level of cheapest chinese ones and ignore that fact when they pay 500 but when i share 50eur lens everyone attack me... i repeat-this was made to help people decide and see there are cheapest options if they wanna test some focal length or test low light shooting without bumping up iso. i wanted to show that there is nothing to afraid from - its normal lens manufacturer and same as any famous and in few years they will be probably ten times ahead. (remember what happened in phone industry-did anyone want samsung 10 years ago? did anyone want huawei 3 years ago? and now even my budget huawei one year old has better specs than iphone 12 that came out few days ago...) so i dont force anyone to buy, i dont say its perfect lenses but i say they bring a lot for low price, while i felt ripped off with both leica body and lenses in film world and fuji 18/2 and 35/2 in digital world... so if you dont like and dont need chinese lenses - just ignore my threads.. i wanted this to be photo only thread and not to get people proving me that big brands are better because i dont fel they are and i dont care about them anymore.if you guys feel the need to take a dump on someone because can make realistic price and not multiplaying it by 10, 50 or 100 times just because of the name on it-then just go ahead. (but i assure you if half of these lenses were branded leica and put in leica barrel you would tell me about character)
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
You are taking this personally. Just because I see the images and I read the reviews on the image quality and the build quality, and I say that I wouldn't buy it because of those issues, you are conflating that into my making a judgment call on your personal choices. I'm not. I'm making a judgement call on the performance and the build of the lens, as are others here and in other places. It will work for some, but not for others. The flip side of that coin is that if you want this and other low cost lens alternative threads to be taken seriously, you shouldn't belittle the choices of others or the lenses they choose.
For me, Fujinon has been and still are some of the finest lenses ever made. The same goes with many Pentax optics. The older SMC Takumars are world renowned for their performance, every bit as good as Leica or Zeiss. Konica Hexanon lenses are stunning and folks are now paying attention to that, driving the prices up. But I still own a Leica lens, and most of what I use are Nikon lenses. I'm not out bashing other manufacturers because I was hurt that I paid too much for their lens. I've felt let down by the reliability of some cameras but I've never vocally complained about a lens I wanted and purchased then didn't like. I loved the original cosina Voigtlander 35mm f/1.7 but it fell apart, in spite of giving great images. Eventually it had to go.
When people purchase Leica, et al. they are not just purchasing superlative optical performance (which is overpriced, in 35mm, I agree), they are purchasing haptics, ergonomics, compatibility, extraordinary build quality, and buying into a legacy of photography that goes back to the very beginning of miniature format still imaging. If you don't like that, that's ok, but don't belittle the photographer or their choice of lens because of your personal feelings.
Phil Forrest
For me, Fujinon has been and still are some of the finest lenses ever made. The same goes with many Pentax optics. The older SMC Takumars are world renowned for their performance, every bit as good as Leica or Zeiss. Konica Hexanon lenses are stunning and folks are now paying attention to that, driving the prices up. But I still own a Leica lens, and most of what I use are Nikon lenses. I'm not out bashing other manufacturers because I was hurt that I paid too much for their lens. I've felt let down by the reliability of some cameras but I've never vocally complained about a lens I wanted and purchased then didn't like. I loved the original cosina Voigtlander 35mm f/1.7 but it fell apart, in spite of giving great images. Eventually it had to go.
When people purchase Leica, et al. they are not just purchasing superlative optical performance (which is overpriced, in 35mm, I agree), they are purchasing haptics, ergonomics, compatibility, extraordinary build quality, and buying into a legacy of photography that goes back to the very beginning of miniature format still imaging. If you don't like that, that's ok, but don't belittle the photographer or their choice of lens because of your personal feelings.
Phil Forrest
nzeeman
Well-known
there are no my personal feelings-i just want to share with people what they can get for almost nothing-i still stand behind my opinion that both fuji lenses i tried 18/2 and 35/2 would be considered junk if not software corrected in camera. if u see them uncorrected and with chinese name on front you wouldnt say its finest lens - but its chinese junk - its not for me... do you wanna try? i can make you non corrected fuji photos and chinese lens photos and you will tell me which one is fuji and do you still consider it quality lens... and please - if you dont like it-say you dont like it and ignore the existence of this thread-but i see you feel the need to comment because you feel chinese is making disturbance in your perfect expensive hobby world... well its not anymore like that - now everyone can make same lens and anyway all those new lenses you love so much are made in same factories.
pyeh
Member of good standing
I for one appreciate what nzeeman is doing in bringing to our attention these new efforts from Chinese manufacturers. Like him I also wonder why
- there is so little interest in them here on a rangefinder forum, when every new less-than-Leica priced lens from Japan that comes to market generates huge plaudits.
- there's scant information on the big review sites.
- that lenses for mirrorless cameras over rely on software correction for their acceptance. If they were honest they'd offer only one lens and the computational goodies of a mobile phone.
- there is so little interest in them here on a rangefinder forum, when every new less-than-Leica priced lens from Japan that comes to market generates huge plaudits.
- there's scant information on the big review sites.
- that lenses for mirrorless cameras over rely on software correction for their acceptance. If they were honest they'd offer only one lens and the computational goodies of a mobile phone.
nzeeman
Well-known
sorry everyone for this whole off topic - if i was admin i would erase all these useless posts... so lets get to why we started it all-photographs made with this lens (i think all of them wide open apart from misty canal that was around 4 i think)
Archlich
Well-known
Unlike larger, relatively established Chinese vendors like 7artisans, none of these smaller brands cared to release detailed measurements and actual lens diagrams. Some brands share the same set of description (despite the optical construction part), making things even more vague. My take is none should be taken seriously.
Don't think it's marketing strategy either since what's going on with these competing minor brands can only be best described as chaos. Very few seem to have a long term strategy as they make the ends by feeding off the enormous supply chain in the region and rush to ship whatever their manufacturers happen to have on shelf.
The lack of consistent approach to push upstream with these brands is sad since you always have to take the chance with each purchase. You don't bond with and trust Risepray, or Ulata, or Veledge. Eventually it may not be sustainable as the industry moves on.
I fail to see why this matters... and your solution doesn’t seem plausible.
zuikologist
.........................
Not sure if it is the processing or the subject matter but I find the results here quite flat, and lacking some character (and I do own lots of odd lenses, adapted lenses and China source lenses). It is difficult to tell sharpness, character and micro-contrast from these examples. There is certainly some distortion. It reminds me of some 1980s SLR lenses.
zuikologist
.........................
I humbly disagree - these Fuji lenses are designed as part of an eco-system that includes software correction, AF, electronic aperture etc and quality control - comparing the output to a Manual, low cost lens that may compare in output is not apples with apples. That said, the low cost lens may be useful to someone - I think that’s your point. Others disagree because they have other needs from their lenses. No point in calling Fuji lenses junk though.
nzeeman
Well-known
i guess its flat because i keep sharpness, contrast and saturation in minus-i like flat photos usually...
nzeeman
Well-known
we still go into discussing china vs world - i will just ignore it-enjoy your "real" brands guys and i will continue with photos for those interested - its more fun
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
Wonderful photos no matter what lens you used! I have a 7artisan 50/1.1 and am impressed by the built quality and performance. I don’t use the Noctilux enough to justify keeping it and with the 7artisan I bought for $350 purely out of curiosity I now have a fat wallet. My best friend is from the former Yugoslavia and he said when he was growing up Chinese made products were ubiquitous. To this day he drives to Chinatown just to buy Chinese herbal toothpaste crediting the stuff for his healthy gums. I suppose Chinese factories have been making so much OEM crap for the West the reputation is somewhat justified.
nzeeman
Well-known
thanks man! i really have super fun with this camera and lens after long time.. i was using film leica for decade and more and never found a good flow. but when i came to xe - i found it again (ok i found it with ricoh ff70 again but film started to ve so expensive that i looked for something compact and i saw used xe for 200 and went for it). btw i now wait for ttartisan 35/1.4 - it has click stops which is a big plus. so after i check which one is feeling best i will settle down for one lens in 35 and use Jupiter 8 as portrait one...