randomm
Well-known
Hi to all!
So after some heavy auction site surfing over couple of months I got a lucky break with getting a Robot Royal 36 with the Xenar 45mm f2.8 lens in relatively nice overall condition. Mine is an earlier model with no full automatic mode, but that's fine with me, the semi-auto I have already found useful in action situations. Slow times were a problem, but after some thorough playing around I got everything else aside from 1/2s and 1/5s working decently.
Couple of shots from my test roll. Exposures by sunny 16 rule on LegacyPro 400 (rebadged Neopan) film.
This morning I took the camera for a CLA to get the remaining slow speeds back. I simply love Robots' rotary shutters - enabling shooting with ridiculously slow times.
Here is a photo taken with my Robot IIa, with 1/5s shutter speed in ambient lighting in a garage:
The only thing that I find as a serious drawback with Robots is that they seem to be or becoming collector items and finding lenses suitable for the 36, or even hoods for the lenses, is very very difficult unless you have a thick wallet.
Anybody know anyone with a Royal 36 fitting Tele-Xenar lying around looking for some use, or a hood for the 45mm Xenar?
So after some heavy auction site surfing over couple of months I got a lucky break with getting a Robot Royal 36 with the Xenar 45mm f2.8 lens in relatively nice overall condition. Mine is an earlier model with no full automatic mode, but that's fine with me, the semi-auto I have already found useful in action situations. Slow times were a problem, but after some thorough playing around I got everything else aside from 1/2s and 1/5s working decently.
Couple of shots from my test roll. Exposures by sunny 16 rule on LegacyPro 400 (rebadged Neopan) film.
This morning I took the camera for a CLA to get the remaining slow speeds back. I simply love Robots' rotary shutters - enabling shooting with ridiculously slow times.
Here is a photo taken with my Robot IIa, with 1/5s shutter speed in ambient lighting in a garage:
The only thing that I find as a serious drawback with Robots is that they seem to be or becoming collector items and finding lenses suitable for the 36, or even hoods for the lenses, is very very difficult unless you have a thick wallet.
Anybody know anyone with a Royal 36 fitting Tele-Xenar lying around looking for some use, or a hood for the 45mm Xenar?
xxloverxx
Shoot.
How does a rotary shutter help you shoot at low speeds?
randomm
Well-known
Very low inertia. It unfortunately also means that the maximum speed is limited to 500 in most (all?) Robots.
Edit: ... this is all learned from elsewhere in the internet, however, my own experiences seem to support the claim. The 36 I have only had for couple of weeks, but the IIa I have shot pretty extensively with and I'd say that compared to an SLR without a stabiliser I get extra 2 stops with slower shutter speeds, obviously with non-moving subjects... 1/5s speed is quite usable in many situations.
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Satumango
Newbie
Expensive? Yeah...
Expensive? Yeah...
Collectors items, yeah, I agree. I have a Robot Star (180 euros, seems about the right price), a Star II Volautomatt (faulty however so I got it for 75 euro's) and a Royal 36 mod. III with a Xenon 50/1.9 (around 460 euro's including S&H). Most of them that I've seen were way more expensive than that.
Just got the Star back after necessary repairs (another 100 euro after two wasted rolls of film) so I don't yet know how it performs. And still didn't get around to finishing the first roll in the Royal.
As for the lenses, I found a TeleXenar 75/4 for the 36 for around 100 euro's (lucky me). I did see some 75/3.5's for around 250 or more. Bit above the amount I was willing to pay. Still need an external viewfinder for the 75 though, framing is to hard otherwise. And looking for a 35.
BTW, it seems that not all lenses that fit will work, some lenses seem to be made for the 24x24 and halfframe models. See http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74642 for some advice from fellow Royal 36 owner Vince Lupo.
Marcel
Expensive? Yeah...
Collectors items, yeah, I agree. I have a Robot Star (180 euros, seems about the right price), a Star II Volautomatt (faulty however so I got it for 75 euro's) and a Royal 36 mod. III with a Xenon 50/1.9 (around 460 euro's including S&H). Most of them that I've seen were way more expensive than that.
Just got the Star back after necessary repairs (another 100 euro after two wasted rolls of film) so I don't yet know how it performs. And still didn't get around to finishing the first roll in the Royal.
As for the lenses, I found a TeleXenar 75/4 for the 36 for around 100 euro's (lucky me). I did see some 75/3.5's for around 250 or more. Bit above the amount I was willing to pay. Still need an external viewfinder for the 75 though, framing is to hard otherwise. And looking for a 35.
BTW, it seems that not all lenses that fit will work, some lenses seem to be made for the 24x24 and halfframe models. See http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74642 for some advice from fellow Royal 36 owner Vince Lupo.
Marcel
archive59
Established
The biggest problem I find is being sure that a particular lens will fit the the 36 (ie it is a 2 cam lens) and is not a single cam 24 lens. A lot of the Schneider lens were produced as both types and there is no marking to differentiate so you have to look at the back of the lens to be sure. A 36 lens will fit on both 24 and 36 Royals, but a 24 lens will fit only a 24.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Yes, they are really nice cameras, and I've lusted after the 35/2.8 Xenogon for quite a while. The only thing is to make sure you're not buying a lens that's meant for a Robot Royal 24 -- I made that mistake with the 30mm lens, and it gave me very nice vignetting on my 36. I have the 50/2 Zeiss Sonnar and the 75/4 Schneider Tele-Xenar, plus hoods and the closeup accessory, but the Xenogon is currently out of reach.
randomm
Well-known
Yeah, you can see by asking for a photo of the lens mount. If the mount has two cut-out slots in it it is for the 36 (one at 12 o'clock position and another one at 3 o'clock if I remember correctly), if it only has one (at 12 o'clock) then it is for the 24...
Or this much I have managed to figure out from looking at my own lens and lenses for sale on ebay...
randomm
Well-known
The shop that is servicing my Royal has a Royal Recorder for sale bundled together with the 35/2.8 xenogon lens. If I recall it was a 36 model. ... 480 euros, with a 6 month guarantee though.
Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
Simple. The only rangefinder bayonet mounted glass for the Royal 36 sold by Robot were the 4,0/24mm Enna, 2,8 /35mm Schneider Xenogon, 2,8/45mm Xenar , 2,0/50mm Zeiss Sonnar, 2,0/50mm Schneider Xenon and 3,8/75mm Schneider Tele-Xenar. A large number of longer range telephotos were also offered but without rangefinder focusing. There are number of other bits of glass for the Royal such as an Angenieux 3,5/24mm and a number of Kinoptik specialties but they tend to be relatively rare and more today for collectors than users.
The only thing to note is that while all 75mm Tele-Xenars will cover 24x36 not all Robot bayonet mount 75mm have rangefinder mounts. The later (black series) Tele-Xenar were designed to to be switchable between screw (Star) and bayonet (Robot Recorder) mountings. The hardware is generic to screw (Star) or bayonet (Recorder) and does not contain a rangerfinder curve.
All the glass that works on the 36 will work on the 24.
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archive59
Established
You are correct in saying that all lens that will fit on a Royal 36 will fit a 24 because there are 2 indentations on the back of 36 lenses to allow for the 2 cams present on a Royal 36. The Royal 24 has one cam and therefore lenses intended only for the 24 have only one corresponding indentation and will not fit on the Royal 36. This is where the problem lies when buying a lens for a 36 because the Schneider lenses were all produced in both forms and are not marked differently so you have to look at the back of the lens to check for the 2 indentations.
Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
I've never seen a Royal rangefinder mount 50mm Sonnar or 45mm Xenar that did not have 2 indents . Its, I think, only an issue with the Schneider 75mm Tele-Xenar. They all cover 24x36 so I suspect that some of the early models did not consider 2 indents. I don't think there was any change to the glass throughout the whole Royal production cycle. The bit of metal that prevents 1 indent mounts from being used, I think, can be easily unscrewed. It was, I think, intended just as a security measure to prevent people from using models that don't cover the frame--- such as the popular 1:2,0/40mm Xenon. Its also interesting to note in this connection that many of the 3rd party adapters I've seen have been designed for "24x24" even if they'd work perfectly fine for 24x36 if they had 2 indents....
randomm
Well-known
Did I hear adapters mentioned? Is it by any chance possible to use LTM, M-mount, or any other glass on the Royal?
Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
No LTM or M-mount. Their flange-focal distance are resp. 28.8mm and 27.80mm. The Robot has a FFD of ~ 31mm. That's why one can mount Robot objectives on a Leica but not visa-versa. The most popular mounts to adapt to the Robots are M42, T-2, Exakta, K-mount, Nikon F, Cannon FD, .... To adapt, for example, T-2.. Its got a FFD of 55mm or a difference of ~24mm. Lacking a Robot male and without a machine shop one can probably use a Robot bay. extension tube.. None of these solutions provide curves for the rangefinder.. but its generally to mount either wide angle SLR glass which has sufficient DOF or long tele-photos beyond the capacity anyway of the rangefinder (which is, I think, 200mm)..
randomm
Well-known
Amazing how you know all this stuff, thanks for this info!
josteinr
Newbie
Hi
I recently received a Robot 36 with 45/2.8 and 75/4 from my dads uncle which was an avid photographer back in the 50s and 60s. I also have a Leica M6, where do I look to find one of these "Robot -> M42 adapters"? would be so nice to use the 75mm on my M6!