Rodinal with Acros and Foma 100?

[TimSmith-Laing]

Hi guys,

Am having a developer holiday and I'd like some advice. Normally I stick to my trusty ilfosol 3 - which seems to have few fans here, but which is easy to get hold of and easy to use - but I decided to pick up some Rodinal and have a play.

So, recommendations for Acros and Foma?

The Foma is @ EI50. The massive dev chart gives Foma @EI100 as 1:19, 6.5 mins, so I was going to have a crack at 5.5 mins - which is the time I use for EI50 in Ilfosol, at 20 deg.c. Thoughts?

The Acros is box-speed. Massive dev chart gives 1:50, 13.5 mins. Again. thoughts?

I hear a lot about stand development with Rodinal, and I'm not sure I have the patience for it, but I'm willing to give it a crack if it's really the best way of getting good results.

I also get the impression that Rodinal can be kinda touchy with agitation and grain, hence people's preference for stand dev. My normal routine is gentle inversions for first 30 secs, then 10 secs every minute after that. How'll that work with Rodinal?

Cheers in advance,

Tim

 

[ChrisN]

I don't know those films, but I'd recommend the agitation routine recommended by AGFA. I've just done a roll of TRI-X 400, exposed at 250, in Rodinal 1+100 for 15 minutes at 20C, with the AGFA agitation, and the results are very nice.

.

 

[erik]

I can't speak for the Fomapan but Acros looks great in Rodinal. I would stick with your agitation as it is. You will get more apparent grain with stand dev, but it is a way to control contrast. 1:50 12' @ 70 is my base time, I adjust from there depending on scene contrast range.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi Tim,


I use Acros on Rodinal a lot... Rodinal is a great developer (my favorite one by far), and after many years of using it with a lots of films, I trust 100% in normal development and not stand, always at 1+50 and 18ºC. I use 8ml + 400ml water for a roll. I prefer to develop rolls one by one... The grain it produces is not big in any way, and it's sharp and crisp and prints beautifully. Images look sharp. I agitate slowly for the first 30 seconds, and then 3 gentle inversions every change of minute.


For Acros I use four different development times:


1. The standard development for sunny scenes: this is the development required for scenes where I want great contrast control so the zones in shadows appear clear and clean, and they're not too dark compared to the sunny zones: close to human vision. I shoot at f/5.6 ½ and 1/250 with yellow filter. 12 minutes. The speed/aperture are the result of incident metering @25 because of the yellow filter and the generous exposure for the pulling. I give you the ISO for incident metering because -although most of the day the direct sun metering remains the same- as soon as the sun starts to come down, metering changes...


2. The pushed development for sunny scenes: I use this one (more punchy look) when I prefer to make my Acros a faster film for sunny scenes, sometimes because I want faster speed, and sometimes because I want more DOF... And sometimes because I have no relevant zones in the shadows so more contrast is OK... I use f/8 1/500 or f/11 1/250 depending on the scene and subject movement... Same yellow filter, 18 minutes. Incident metering @64.


3. The standard development for soft light scenes: with this development, I give Acros “the ligh it needs” and develop accordingly to get good contrast for scenes under soft light, like overcast days, or ambient indoors light, or zones in the shadows on sunny days... No filter. I meter incident @100 and develop for 20 minutes.


4. The pushed development for soft light scenes: this is the fastest use of Acros I like... Sometimes for too flat scenes, and sometimes just because of low light or because faster shutter speed or higher DOF are required... No filter. Incident metering @400 and 33 minutes.


Acros/LP and Rodinal are a great combo. Hope this helps!




Cheers,


Juan

 

[TimSmith-Laing]

Guys, thanks so much, this is great!

Chris: thanks for the table; I'll be pinning it to my noticeboard. If you haven't tried Acros I really heartily recommend it, it's a beautiful film. Foma is also great, and very cheap.

Juan, unfortunately I've done my usual thing of forgetting the character of scenes I was shooting. I think you've just convinced me to make a note of it somewhere from now on... Cheers!

Erik, when you say @70 you mean 20 deg F? Meaning roughly 21 deg c? Even at 21, 12 mins seems a fairly short time; can I ask if that gives you fairly punchy negs or are you going for relatively low contrast negs for scanning?

Either way I'm sensing that 1:50 is the way forward. Meaning 10ml for a 120 film. For temperature, is there a particular reason you prefer 18 Juan? At the moment the water out of the tap here is pretty much dead on 21, which makes it a convenient temp for me ...

Thanks again guys. Shall wait to hear from you and then give it a crack.

T

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Tim,

Some years ago I read 1+50 and 18ºC produced beautiful grain: crisp but not too big, so I started to process my films that way... Now all my times for all films are 18ºC... Some people said they liked that better than 20ºC or more, and also better than 1+25, talking about grain... Don't know if the difference is too much if a higher temperature or a stronger dilution are used, but as I like how it looks, I keep doing it that way... I also remember I read then going below 16ºC was too low for the overall tone, so 18ºC seemed a nice point: push times are a bit long, but I don't push too often...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[TimSmith-Laing]

That's interesting Juan, I'll give it a go. During the winter here it's just as easy to get 18 deg.c as anything else; at the moment, without messing around with cooled water, 21 is convenient. I'll give 18 a go though, I like crisp grain, a lot.

I went with 1:50 as you suggested, but for 14 mins at 21 deg.c., in the end. Without usual tweaking, of course. Doesn't look at all bad:

What do you think? Can I get better results?

 

[Leigh Youdale]

I've used Acros with Rodinal 1+50 with the agitation you use and had very good results.
But Rodinal with HP5+ is not so good - very grainy and I now reserve Rodinal for ISO 100-125 films and use DD-X for ISO 400 films. In fact, Ilford and Agfa don't give times for HP5+ in Rodinal - not recommended.
Fomapan I found to be a bit tricky with some lovely tonality on occasion but also some strong grain and poor tones on others - seemed to depend very much on (a) the quality of the particular batch of film, (b) the ambient lighting and (c) the subject matter, rather than the developer, and as I was getting superb results from FP4+ I stopped using Foma and Efke films even though they were attractively priced.

 

[ChrisN]

Hi Leigh, in the old table I posted above, AGFA give times for HP5+ exposed at 100, 160 and 320. Have you any experience with that? I've never tried giving that much extra exposure to HP5.

I'd certainly agree that HP5+ does very well in DD-X.

 

[Freakscene]

Also note that the "Neopan 100" in the table above is Neopan SS, not Acros.

I agree with Juan about using Rodinal at 18C if you can. And Juan's photos look good, but in my experience, those times would way over develop my films. Individual experience counts for a lot.

Marty

 

[maddoc]

I develop 100ACROS in Rodinal, 18 to 19 degrees C, 1:100 and for 17 minutes (E.I.100ISO). Inversions are for the first minute continously and then 3 inversions up to 10 minutes and one inversion per minute for the remaining time.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I do wet printing, not scans (scanners are way more limited for handling negative tonal range than paper...), so I need to do it like that because I prefer my whites (darkest parts on negatives) clearly separated from high grays on paper... When I enlarge a frame, I prefer a "clean" negative (slightly generous exposure and development) I can expose a bit beyond the traditional point of exact time for black base+fog, in order to assure deep blacks with pure whites too, and without excessive contrast.

I think no photographer in the world can get a roll of Acros overdeveloped for wet printing if metered and developed in any of the four ways I use it... It would be interesting to see that happen... It would be a mystery to me... 🙂 Even more considering that my enlarging filter is a Nikon, and those are high contrast!

Even in the case (4) of the Acros push to 400, the negatives allow nice tonal range on paper... Of course, as any good pusher knows, a two stop push over box speed requires very precise metering (exposure), and AE is not the way to go at all! For example, in those push developments, exposing one stop above or below the optimal exposure makes you lose a huge part of your already reduced tonal range, as with slide film... While in the case of the normal sunny development, there's -because of the pull- lot of room on the film's latitude to allow great printing in the -2 to +2 range of exposure...

Would be nice to see others' results, starting with the very safe sunny development...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[erik]

Yes, sorry, @ 70 is 70F or 21c. But 18c is good too. I standardized to 70F a long time ago because I can there easier in my darkroom. Rodinal isn't affected by changes in temp. very much, a degree or two difference won't be a disaster. One of the reasons why it was such a popular developer for DIY types 100 years ago. I develop for wet printing, not scanning. I tend towards the classic expose fully, and go gentle on the development approach. I also shoot in bright sun a lot. Lots of room for personal tastes with this film/dev combo.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Hi Leigh, in the old table I posted above, AGFA give times for HP5+ exposed at 100, 160 and 320. Have you any experience with that? I've never tried giving that much extra exposure to HP5.

I'd certainly agree that HP5+ does very well in DD-X.

Chris, I have the same table. I was going on the N/R and have read elsewhere that it's not a recommended combination but I can't remember where at the moment. But my own results confirm it. If I don't use DD-X I use Prescysol EF which I find very good.
I haven't tried HP5+ at the lower ISO settings. If I was going to go <200 I'd use FP4+ for preference.

 

[Freakscene]

I think no photographer in the world can get a roll of Acros overdeveloped for wet printing if metered and developed in any of the four ways I use it... It would be interesting to see that happen... It would be a mystery to me... 🙂 Even more considering that my enlarging filter is a Nikon, and those are high contrast!

Shutters, meters, water and a thousand other variables differ. Any combination can be magic or disaster in different hands. Interpretation of results also differ and that is even harder to measure.

Marty