Rollei 35 Tessar/Sonnar shutter board interchangeable?

[bitfeng]

Dear All,
I have a Sonnar whose shutter does not sound right: lower speeds not low, B stop does not stay. Spent some time on it and couldn't figure out why. I have a spare Rollei 35 with Tessar lens whose shutter may be ok. Are the two shutter boards interchangeable? I can see they have different configurations but the interface to the lens seems the same except maybe the aperture control. And if yes how to remove the lens?
Thank you very much.

 

[pb908]

as far as i remember (i had opened each of them), you have big chance to be able to swap it, not to swap the lens, but to swap the whole lens+ front plate assembly.
This i believe can be done for the models having the same model (35SE vs 35TE, 35S vs 35T). But i have never done it before.
Bassically if you remove the front plate, all shutter/lens mechanism will be there on the front plate. The camera body is just film compartment area, lightmeter assembly and cocking/rewind mechanism. On the TE/SE model, the front assembly control the lightmeter thru rotating gradual density filter, while the T/S model have mechanical linkage. The hardest part is to align the linkage for the speed/aperture/iso dials to the lightmeter (imo). I have seen some rollei 35 with "broken" meter, but actually it came with unproper installation

 

[bitfeng]

Thank you pb908. Actually I also have torn a few 35 and 35S apart and put them back together, although no "E" models. I just haven't removed the lens from the front plate assembly yet. It seems the shutter timing assembly has to go with the front plate assembly otherwise shutter recalibration will be needed. That is why I am wondering if I can only swap only the front plate.
Back to the meter mechanical linkage, I found out that the moving needles of a few 35 and 35S agree with each other, while the "orange bar" differ by half to one stop for the same speed and aperture setting. I think it is due to very slight mechanical linkage misalignment/shift but never bother to fix it since I am not using meters anyway.

as far as i remember (i had opened each of them), you have big chance to be able to swap it, not to swap the lens, but to swap the whole lens+ front plate assembly.
This i believe can be done for the models having the same model (35SE vs 35TE, 35S vs 35T). But i have never done it before.
Bassically if you remove the front plate, all shutter/lens mechanism will be there on the front plate. The camera body is just film compartment area, lightmeter assembly and cocking/rewind mechanism. On the TE/SE model, the front assembly control the lightmeter thru rotating gradual density filter, while the T/S model have mechanical linkage. The hardest part is to align the linkage for the speed/aperture/iso dials to the lightmeter (imo). I have seen some rollei 35 with "broken" meter, but actually it came with unproper installation

 

[pb908]

once i try to remove the lens assembly, but couldn't manage to find the way. Let me know if you managed to do it. I once open the optic elements from the front for cleaning, but have no guts to disassembly all mechanism.

I was dreaming to remove the sonnar lens assembly (with the barrel) and modify it for ltm mount, just day dreaming..

 

[bitfeng]

Per the service manual, it seems the front part of the lens needs to be removed first in order to get the lens tube out. Seems a lot of work to me. I wish the lens could be removed by just removing a few screws on the back.
BTW, how hard to remove the lens elements from the front? How many elements have you removed? Interesting since some Rollei 35s have aluminium dusts inside due to friction on the "guiding ridge" on the chamber, I am always thinking about to clean it up a little bit.

once i try to remove the lens assembly, but couldn't manage to find the way. Let me know if you managed to do it. I once open the optic elements from the front for cleaning, but have no guts to disassembly all mechanism.

I was dreaming to remove the sonnar lens assembly (with the barrel) and modify it for ltm mount, just day dreaming..

 

[bitfeng]

Rollei 35 S Lens Assembly Removal

Rollei 35 S Lens Assembly Removal

Hi, Hope you are still interested in removing the lens assembly.
Yes I did it. I also dissembled the lens assembly into the front group, the aperture, the shutter and the rear group. But you may not want to go that far.
Please see attached. The front side of the lens has two stops which you need to remove (not shown). Then you will need to remove the two long screws from back. Then while rotating the lens assembly, at some point it will go out so far the the shutter and aperture control can be disengaged.
Putting things back was a little tricky. I repeated once to get it right. Then check focus, etc.

once i try to remove the lens assembly, but couldn't manage to find the way. Let me know if you managed to do it. I once open the optic elements from the front for cleaning, but have no guts to disassembly all mechanism.

I was dreaming to remove the sonnar lens assembly (with the barrel) and modify it for ltm mount, just day dreaming..

 

[bitfeng]

please see how to remove Rollei 35 S lens assembly.
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1990890#post1990890

 

[Hallsy]

Good work Bitfeng 🙂

Maybe you will be able to help me with my Rollei 35 S. I wanted to strip the focus mechanism as mine is binding between 20 feet and infinity - feels like maybe dry grease or debri.

I removed the trim ring and focus scale ring, but couldn't see how the front element or focus ring should come out. Do I need to remove the lens completely?

The service manual I have only covers the Tessar lens 🙁

 

[bitfeng]

Did your lens show sign of previous removal? It could be one of two things: 1. the grease dried up; 2. the lens assembly is not nested right in the focusing helicord.

Inside the camera, on the back, the back cover of the lens: there are two flat screws holding the back cover. These are NOT the ones positioning the lens assembly. They may need to be removed though go get some play room. The two long screws shown on my pic are visible via the two through holes on the back cover - one of them has a sleeve behind the cover. Since I have many 35s, I noticed that for some of them there is no through holes on the back cover -which means the long screws are not accessible.

Once the long screws are removed, gentlely rotate the lens out through the front. There are two "stoppers" near the rim - but I found out that they do not need to removed.

No you do not need to remove the Boomerang - neither can you remove it. It is locked with glue and I broke that screw head off on another camera.

The front side, the piece that you can rotate, is actually a intermediate piece. Itself rotate into the lens tube, and force the inner piece, which is the lens assembly, to move out. This is because the lens assembly cannot rotate - they can only go in and out. The two long screws on the lens assembly, go through holes on a fixed bracket behind the back cover.

You don't even need to dissemble the camera body for the work. Although if you get the shutterboard out it would be easier.

When you rotate the lens assembly out, keep checking the back to disengage the shutter and aperture mechanism. The lens need to go out far for this to be possible. Then you can rotate the thing out.

The hard part is to put it back. Hard to describe but you will get it. I believe the intermediate piece can be nested and will work in a few ways. But it may not work - i.e. too tight to infinity - for some positions. Not easy.

In my case I even dissembled it further. But I cannot check the eccentricity. So not to be advised.

As you do it, please post some pics so that I may be able to guide you further.

The following link helps me. But it is in Chinese. The gentlemen only need the lens for M-mount so he grinded the boomerang off. He took the camera apart which is not necessary. The reason that I did not want to take the shutter board out is that, you may need to re-nest the intermediate piece a few times and check focusing right way - so you will want the camera to stay in "assembled" state.
http://www.bigeye.url.tw/big5/d_ro40_28.htm

Good work Bitfeng 🙂

Maybe you will be able to help me with my Rollei 35 S. I wanted to strip the focus mechanism as mine is binding between 20 feet and infinity - feels like maybe dry grease or debri.

I removed the trim ring and focus scale ring, but couldn't see how the front element or focus ring should come out. Do I need to remove the lens completely?

The service manual I have only covers the Tessar lens 🙁

 

[Hallsy]

Hi Bitfeng - thanks for that, that's a great help!

Did you see my follow up post? I had a quick looka again yesterday and found that the rear element is fouling on the black back cover of the lens. If I loosen either of the two retaining screws by half a turn, I can get to infinity without an issue.

I wondered if this cover plate is meant to be shimmed? Or the screws adjustable and threadlocked in place?

Incidentally, my cover doesn't have any access holes for the lens retaining screws, which is why I was trying to remove it, but it looks like the shutter actuator 'boomerang' is preventing the cover from coming out!

 

[bitfeng]

Hi Hallsy,
I re-read your other post. You mean the rear side of the lens assembly is pushing against the back cover at infinity? Have you shot a roll and are you sure that "infinity" is correct? I have checked 6 of my 35S and none of them has this problem. The very rear end of the lens assembly has radius about 1mm smaller than that of the hole on the back cover. Beyond the very rear end, the lens assembly is bigger than the hole, but the clearance (in depth) between that part and the back cover ranges from 0.5mm on one camera to 2mm on another camera - my guess is that they are slightly different because of different versions. However, I would assume the distance from the rear of the rear lens element to the film plane should remain the same at infinity for all the versions - it should be the same lens after all.
If you are sure the infinity point is correct, I would agree with you - just loosen the screws a little to make it work, and forget about the rest. But light may leak to the chamber depending on how much you loosen them.
Hope this would help.
Feng

Hi Bitfeng - thanks for that, that's a great help!

Did you see my follow up post? I had a quick looka again yesterday and found that the rear element is fouling on the black back cover of the lens. If I loosen either of the two retaining screws by half a turn, I can get to infinity without an issue.

I wondered if this cover plate is meant to be shimmed? Or the screws adjustable and threadlocked in place?

Incidentally, my cover doesn't have any access holes for the lens retaining screws, which is why I was trying to remove it, but it looks like the shutter actuator 'boomerang' is preventing the cover from coming out!

 

[Hallsy]

Thanks Feng, yes, I hadn't noticed until I loosened the two screws that hold the black plate inside the film chamber.

I hadn't considered light leaks - good point.

I had checked focus with a frosted glass at the film plane and adjusted the focus scale ring for 1M, 2M and inifinity, but as you say, I had the same thoughts about infinity when I realised it was the rear element bottoming out.

I have put a test roll through it, just waiting to get it back from development.

Are the minimum & maximum focus stops set by the position of the distance scale ring? I had tried it in fully clockwise & anti-clockwise positions, but from memory it didn't make any difference to the stops, just the relative position of the scale.

In the models you have that don't have the access holes in the cover plate, how do you access the lens retaining screws? Can you get to them by wiggling the plate once it is loose?

 

[bitfeng]

First of all, the focus ring move is limited by the relative position of the focus ring v.s. the stops on the rim of the lens barrel (not visible).

For earlier 35S, when you reach the infinity side, the infinity sign does not line up with the little triangle. I have re-make a triangle with a piece of tape, to match the position of the infinity sign. The later 35S, with both metric and imperial marks on the same side, are free of this problem.

Then when I use the frosted glass method to find the infinity and position the ring - the real film test will show it has near focusing problem - i.e. if I set the ring at 1m from the film plane, the real film test will show it focuses at 0.95-0.98m. My guess is that the film curves a little bit and moves away from the film plane. If you check the channel height you will see the film could play a little. Anyways usually I need to repeat film tests twice to get it right. The way I do it is that now I loosen the screws then reset the ring to 0.95-0.98m. I taped signs of 0.95, 0.98, 1, 1.02, 1.05, 1.4, 1.45, 1.48, 1.5, 1.52, 1.55, 1.6, 2, and 3 meters on my wall.

I only removed the lens assembly of one of them. If there is no hole, I do not see a way to do it.

As you can see, although the 35S is a nice camera, it leaves a bit to be desired.

Thanks Feng, yes, I hadn't noticed until I loosened the two screws that hold the black plate inside the film chamber.

I hadn't considered light leaks - good point.

I had checked focus with a frosted glass at the film plane and adjusted the focus scale ring for 1M, 2M and inifinity, but as you say, I had the same thoughts about infinity when I realised it was the rear element bottoming out.

I have put a test roll through it, just waiting to get it back from development.

Are the minimum & maximum focus stops set by the position of the distance scale ring? I had tried it in fully clockwise & anti-clockwise positions, but from memory it didn't make any difference to the stops, just the relative position of the scale.

In the models you have that don't have the access holes in the cover plate, how do you access the lens retaining screws? Can you get to them by wiggling the plate once it is loose?

 

[Hallsy]

Thanks again Bitfeng, my 35 S has the imperial marks at the top and metric on the underside.

I had checked at infinity, but tend to spend more time setting at closer distances as that is more important in my mind. I will double check again, maybe the rear element is extending past infinity, but as I understand it the stops are beyond infinity and before minimum distance marks, so even then, it shouldn't interfere with the cover plate.

Hopefully I'll get chance to take a look again this afternoon!

 

[bitfeng]

Hi Hallsy,
Since your camera's back cover plate doesn't even have the access holes, there shouldn't be anyone having messed it up the nesting of the lens assembly on the barrel, except for what might come out from factory.
As noted, the Rollei 35 family has a lot of minor revisions here and there. For example, the shutter boards bear different designs, the frame counter discs have slightly different diameters, the cover screws on the cocking shafts are of different sized, etc. I have opened enough of them to realize the parts are not all compatible one another. Maybe it is the version variations that caused your issue on the back cover.
For the "triangle" - "infinity" misalignment, I could have just filed the focus ring a little bit to make them lined up. But I tried not to modify the original parts.
Also, when I try to focus, I pick the center of the overall width of that distance mark. For example, for 1 meter, I pick the center of the overall character "1", instead of the vertical stroke only.
Like you said, the most critical distance range is between 0.9 meter and 3 meters. Infinity does not matter that much.
Regards,
Feng

Thanks again Bitfeng, my 35 S has the imperial marks at the top and metric on the underside.

I had checked at infinity, but tend to spend more time setting at closer distances as that is more important in my mind. I will double check again, maybe the rear element is extending past infinity, but as I understand it the stops are beyond infinity and before minimum distance marks, so even then, it shouldn't interfere with the cover plate.

Hopefully I'll get chance to take a look again this afternoon!