Rolleicord vs. Yashica Mat 124G?

PMCC said:
Brett - Kudos for a thoughtful and informative post. I like 'em all too (excepting the Zeiss Ikoflex), with the Rollei being primus inter pares.

P.S. Should read: damnable Zeiss Ikoflex.
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At the risk of taking this off topic...

...why the Ikoflex hate?
 
I had a Rolleicord (V) and didn't like the ergonomics. I now have a 124 (non-G) and I LOVE it. I can't see any optical difference between the cameras (except MAYBE slightly better colors with the Yashica).

I liked the light weight of the Rolleicord, but I enjoy the Yashica-Mat more overall.

BTW, I've never used the meter in the Yashica. I just sunny-16 it or use a handheld meter.
 
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PMCC said:
Some might prefer the V because it's the last 'Cord model with right hand focusing, which personally I find makes for better handling. Both the Va and Vb focus on the left, like a Rolleiflex.
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Interesting. Thanks.
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii said:
First off, I love using older cameras regularly, and Rolleis are probably my favourites. So I'm biased towards them, OK?

That said, I agree with others that the Yashicas can produce very good image quality. There's no doubt about that. But there is also no doubt that Rollei is the standard against which all other TLRs are measured, and there are good reasons for this. Build quality and reliability are outstanding. Apart from occasional servicing, they can literally handle decades of use without failure. Whilst later 3.5 & 2.8 E & F Rolleiflex models are the glamour TLRs of the Rollei line up, many owners continue to use all types of 1940s vintage Rolleis (and even older ones sometimes) regularly, and I've seen stunning results produced with any of them. With the possible exception of the Rolleimagic models, there is probably no such thing as a "bad" Rollei TLR.

There is some justification for arguing that a Rolleicord is the most reliable TLR of all, by virtue of the fact that it is a simpler design than a Rolleiflex. (Not that a Rolleiflex is unreliable, by any means. But after decades of use, the adjustment of the film sensing rollers of the automatic film loading system that nearly all Rolleiflexes feature, which automatically detect the "bump" in the roll where the film emulsion begins, may need to be re-set.)

In contrast, all but the earliest Rolleicords feature automatic film spacing, and simply utilise two red dots the photographer uses to manually line up against the marker arrow on the film backing paper. The Rolleiflex film advance system is reliable, but the Rolleicord features simple knob wind and it has many less parts. It's a simpler camera all round, and this also means most Rolleicords are lighter than most Rolleiflex types. For travel use, or trekking, for instance, the Rolleicord would be the one to pack. A good Rolleicord really is a wonderful camera, and the 75mm f/3.5 Xenar lens fitted to them is excellent.

If you are on a budget, consider a V or Va model, or even a IV. As I've stated here before, I think the V is a high point, because it has a very useful self timer for tripod or hand held slower shutter speed use. You can set the timer to give you the full ten second delay, or just a couple of seconds to help you steady a longer exposure in your hands. If you've never used a TLR before you'd be surprised what you can get away with in regard to hand held slower shutter speed exposures.

The Va and Vb models are great, too, and both have a left side focus knob, unlike previous types, which had both film advance and focus knobs on the right. All operate fine, and whether the left or right side focus works better for you is very much a personal preference - I've used both, and couldn't find fault with either set up.

The Vb type in particular sells for more as it has a quick release viewfinder. You can mount a prism on these. And it is the newest and last model Rolleicord. It won't produce image quality any better than an equivalent multi coated V or Va though, so if you're on a budget, the earlier models offer better value, if a prism isn't a must have feature. In this respect I'm not so biased, because I own examples of the V, Va and Vb...they're all brilliant cameras.

Getting away from image quality to less easily defined aspects of ownership, I've never owned another camera of any type which attracts so much favourable comment as a Rollei. The public in general, and younger student types, in particular, just love them (but then, they're beautiful things, so why wouldn't you?).

Whilst this may seem to be a superficial viewpoint, in fact it can yield dividends on the street. Rather than imposing a barrier to casual photo opportunities, (which may be created by the presence of a large SLR, for instance), in my neck of the world at least, it seems to create them. Instead of repelling people, they are attracted to the beautiful old camera I carry, and are frequently happy to be photographed with it.

To be fair, in this day and age, walking around with a Yashica will probably get you noticed, too. I think any TLR would tend to stand out. But (and this is a personal opinion), they're not as beautiful as a Rollei, and, whilst this does not matter a whit to some users, there is something very rewarding about capturing images with an iconic camera that is a design high water mark. Stating the obvious, the Rollei TLR is the original design nearly all other manufacturers copied to some extent, and this certainly applies to the Yashicas.

I don't want to dismiss built in meters out of hand, I own quite a few older 35mm cameras with built in selenium meters and they can be useful sometimes, even more so, the CdS types. But as I tend to shoot either B&W or colour transparency, I invariably find myself carrying a hand held incident meter for more accurate results anyway, so for me, the inclusion of a built in meter is of no importance, and, no matter what you end up acquiring, I'd encourage you to procure a reliable hand held light meter.

Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps.
Regards,
Brett
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Brett - amazing post. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. You give me great things to think about and look forward to.
 
Sam N said:
I had a Rolleicord (V) and didn't like the ergonomics. I now have a 124 (non-G) and I LOVE it. I can't see any optical difference between the cameras (except MAYBE slightly better colors with the Yashica).

I liked the light weight of the Rolleicord, but I enjoy the Yashica-Mat more overall.

BTW, I've never used the meter in the Yashica. I just sunny-16 it or use a handheld meter.
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Sam, is the Yashica you're daily user, and if you live near Santa Monica may I borrow it? :angel::D
 
I had a Yashica 124 MAT G. I loved that camera and used it a lot. I found it to give great quality photos. I now have a Rolleiflex. I hardly ever use it. Part of that is having a 6x7 Super Press 23, but somehow it just doesn't feel the same in use. Nor, in my opinion is the quality that great for the price difference. Others will disagree, and they may well have more experience. I seldom use any of my TLRs anymore, nor have I for many years.
 
I had a 124G once but it must have had a bad lens so I'm not commenting on that. Things I didn't particularly like were noisy film winding and odd flare in some occasions. My 124G also had an odd light leak from under the light meter module. All in all I wasn't too impressed with the Yashica I had.
 
I am very impressed by the images that my Yashicamat 124 produces. As a matter of interest, as far as I am aware, the 124G has gold meter contacts, some minor cosmetic changes and in some (later?) models, plastic winding gear. The meter is fairly crude, I don't use it. A straight Yashicamat with Yashinon lens would be fine for me if I don't want a meter or 220 film capability.

Dave
 
Yashica was my first TLR and although it worked, I was not impressed. Replaced by C220 and C330 and set of 4 lenses plus the shades. Not impressed either. That was a long time ago, 30 years at least.

I borrowed a 3.5 Rollie a few years ago. Those images were impressive. Same from a tele Rollie again borrowed. There is something about the German lenses. Japanese lenses look flat to me. It is in 35 mm also. I compared my Pentax and Leica systems. My wife can pick out the Leica prints in a blind test 100%.

On a budget, I would pop for the Rolliecord or save some and get the Rollieflex . I learned a long time ago, it is all about the lenses.
 
Somehow people always pick up Yashica and Autocords but always missed the Ricoh TLRs even though a few of us mentioned these quite a bit.

Ah well, maybe just as well, so their prices don't inflate like the other two. :)
Speaking of which, I will *never* pay more than $50 for a Yashica Mat, did someone really pay $300 for one ????

I will pit the Ricohmatic 225 against the best models of Rolleicord, and other Japanese TLRs.

But, a well-serviced Rolleiflex 2.8 is still the king when it comes to quality.
 
the only criteria I used for my post was 'cost' and for some reason the 124G'mat has gone crazy imo. I picked up my copy for 100$ here at RFF and subsequently watched prices escalate over 5 years to pass those of a 'cord.

Having both I can say I like the lens character of each. So I don't think it will matter for the photography "in a meaningful way". If the deciding point is price.. the 'cord. If not then maybe all things being equal the 124G because of the meter being included. Mine was slightly off by about 1/2 a stop and I merely adjusted accordingly. If I wanted spend the cash to get it calibrated it probably would have been accurate when compared to my Pentax Spotmeter. It was consistent so I knew how to work with it.
 
shadowfox said:
Somehow people always pick up Yashica and Autocords but always missed the Ricoh TLRs even though a few of us mentioned these quite a bit. <snip> I will pit the Ricohmatic 225 against the best models of Rolleicord, and other Japanese TLRs.
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Not guilty! :D I don't think Ricohmatic 225s are overlooked so much as they are just relatively thin on the ground in typical market venues. Those who know them are likely to be fans. On the other hand, Yashica Mat 124(g)s, while very fine cameras, are relatively abundant, albeit costlier of late. Understandably, the newly TLR-curious are more likely to seek out easier to find popular models from Rollei and Yashica, and not mention the more esoteric models such as Ricohmatic 225 in the same breath. An obtainable TLR is more fun than no TLR at all. ;)
 
Having owned 3 YashicaMats and 1 124 I can say you'd never regret
owning any of them ( the meter was handy in the 124,my daughter now has it) The tele lens certainly added another dimension to it,I found the enlargements to my liking,however there's a bit of vignetting visible,easily cropped with that size of negative.And dressed up in a red or blue camera leather covering you'll have people crossing the street to see it!

Peter
 
PMCC said:
Not guilty! :D I don't think Ricohmatic 225s are overlooked so much as they are just relatively thin on the ground in typical market venues. Those who know them are likely to be fans. On the other hand, Yashica Mat 124(g)s, while very fine cameras, are relatively abundant, albeit costlier of late. Understandably, the newly TLR-curious are more likely to seek out easier to find popular models from Rollei and Yashica, and not mention the more esoteric models such as Ricohmatic 225 in the same breath. An obtainable TLR is more fun than no TLR at all. ;)
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Correct. A search for Ricohmatic 225 on ebay yielded no results.
 
Actually I've decided on a Rollei, which is what I had my heart set on.
I appreciate your taking the time to weigh in with all your experience
with the other options, and particularly appreciate your refocusing me
in the direction of what I really wanted all this time. When my last
ebay auctions end next weekend, if the Rollei I have set my sights on
is still available, I'll post pics when it arrives. :D Meanwhile I'll keep you
in suspense as to the model. ;) I would never purchase anything without a
return policy so I'll tell you the specs as soon as I snag it. Cannot wait.
Thanks again, everyone, very much. A very BIG thank you.
 
I was given a 124 which wasn't winding correctly. I opened it up to take a look at the winding mechanism itself. I don't have any photos unfortunately but part of the chain when you advance involves two thin, angular metal pins to each on each other. On this camera, they'd simply been worn down and weren't trapping anymore.

After seeing that and hearing about how many people eventually had problems with the Yashicas advancing system, I avoided the camera as seemed that problems like that would be inevitable.

That said, I haven't opened up the same part of the Rolleicord or Autocord so I can't say they are better. I'm just assuming the designers are more robust.
 
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