Rolleiflex 2.8c Lens Element Removal

[topaz]

Hello all. I need some advice. I bought a Rolleiflex 2.8c some time ago. I admit that I did not look through the lens with a flashlight.
I sent it to well known Rollei repairman, for assessment, and possible repair. Wanted it done right. I was told that it would return like new. Spent $412. This camera had to be returned immediately due to missing parts. After this, I have done simple repairs myself.
I have been helped greatly by some members of this forum.
Upon the second return, the repairman said that there is fungus in between the elements. So it sits on a shelf for more artistic use.
I contacted John Van Shelton at Focal point. In looking at the photos, he thought it was more a breakdown of cement between rear #3 and #4 elements. I can easily separate Planar groups, but am not so familiar with Xenotar groups. Also, this is a bellows style Rolleiflex. I need a tip on the best way to carefully separate the bellows so I can remove the group/element and send it to John. It is my weekend project. I am sure I am competent to perform this task, but if any of you have been here and could give some pointers, I would be grateful. I would love to use this camera. I attach two photos. Thank you.

 

[Dan Daniel]

The bellows clips into the camera body. The lens side threads onto a flange on the back of the lensplate (? or maybe something else- my memory is vague

If you go about a third down this page you'll see photos of a 2.8C bellows-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/18067251@N04/page2/
This is from the first run of the 2.8C- serial 1220000?? not the 1400000 series??. It has three clips. The 140000?? series bellows has a continuous band of clips. Same thing all in all. The clips are fragile and can be bent and snapped off (don't ask).

Two methods for removal and installation. One is to rack the focus all the way out and take a dental pick into the back and unscrew the bellows from the lens plate by rotating it counterclockwise. Hmmm... maybe this only works on a Tele-Rollei?? The other is to simply undo the lens plate and lift up and pull the clips out- they will let go. Installation is similar but can be trickier to get the clips to go in.

Check the bellows material itself. For reasons I don't understand, I've seen some that have basically melted away and others that look factory fresh. If you need to replace the fabric, it's either do-it-yourself or send it out. Fleenor makes new ones. I do it, or can send you the template and such to do it yourself, drop me a note.

 

[x-ray]

Why not just remove the cell groupings. They unscrew right out of the front and back of the shutter. I use a slightly oversize rubber stopper to press against the rim of the lens mount and it'll usually unscrew easily. I've done this several times with no problem.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Why not just remove the cell groupings. They unscrew right out of the front and back of the shutter. I use a slightly oversize rubber stopper to press against the rim of the lens mount and it'll usually unscrew easily. I've done this several times with no problem.

Have you done this with a Xenotar in a Rolleiflex? I ask because as I remember, the rear element of a Xenotar projects back beyond the mounting metal. And I mean a lot, like 5-10mm beyond. Maybe I am mistaken or the mount has variation.

 

[x-ray]

Have you done this with a Xenotar in a Rolleiflex? I ask because as I remember, the rear element of a Xenotar projects back beyond the mounting metal. And I mean a lot, like 5-10mm beyond. Maybe I am mistaken or the mount has variation.

I've only done it with a xenar and Tessar but have a 2.8 D Xenotar I'll take a look at when I get back to my office.

I've seen a rubber device that's cup shaped to remove retaining and beauty rings before. It avoids contact with the glass. You might ask the person working on your lens if he knows where to get one. I've also seen rear cells slotted so you can use a spanner.

 

[raid]

I have a 2,8C that needs cleaning/repair to get the aperture wheel and shutter wheel move freely. I have no experience at all with repairing or cleaning cameras or lenses.

 

[Timmyjoe]

I had something that looked similar to that on the viewing lens of my Rollei. Not sure how to get yours apart, but with mine, once I got the elements out, I soaked them in hydrogen peroxide and they cleaned up beautifully.

Good luck.

 

[topaz]

Thankyou Dan for your information and the flickr page. It is very helpful to see photos of this. Saved the page. My 2.8c is an early 1270096. It came from an estate in San Francisco, a fantastic city for image making. Interestingly, my 3.5e Planar is a bellows camera also.
X-ray, thankyou for your input. For Planar cells I use a rubber chair or cane foot. I have several sizes, and they generally come right out. But Dan is correct. The Xenotar element sits quite far in, and there are no holes or slots for a spanner.
For stiff controls a competent repair person can remove the front plate and free those up. The original cla done on this camera also included (for $42 extra) this service. Once I remove the group/elements, I will inspect further. Again, Thanks

 

[x-ray]

Thankyou Dan for your information and the flickr page. It is very helpful to see photos of this. Saved the page. My 2.8c is an early 1270096. It came from an estate in San Francisco, a fantastic city for image making. Interestingly, my 3.5e Planar is a bellows camera also.
X-ray, thankyou for your input. For Planar cells I use a rubber chair or cane foot. I have several sizes, and they generally come right out. But Dan is correct. The Xenotar element sits quite far in, and there are no holes or slots for a spanner.
For stiff controls a competent repair person can remove the front plate and free those up. The original cla done on this camera also included (for $42 extra) this service. Once I remove the group/elements, I will inspect further. Again, Thanks

I checked my 2.8 D Xenotar and you're right that there's no easy way to get the rear group out. I'm guessing it takes a special tool.

 

[topaz]

I was able to remove the various levers, screws, shims, etc, and lens plate. The bellows does thread off the rear element housing.
However not until I was able to get it to release its' friction fit to the body. The bellows looks like new, and I have not had any light leaks once all the parts were installed.(light baffle,shield etc). Getting it back in will be somewhat challenging but doable using DULL tools.
I cannot believe how lucky I got. I was told by a well known repair person that my element was fungus damaged. I took his word for it. Looked bad. Was all set to send said element to Focal Point. I separated the rear form the cemented and cleaned all with Zeiss wipes. Unbelievably, the marks all cleaned off. It is a beautiful 62 year old piece of glass ! One bubble.
My issue now is dust. I was so careful, but it is afternoon and I think static is high. I will disassemble the elements again in the morning, and use some isopropyl to clean the work area. Once I effect assembly, I will have a very nice 10 leaf 2.8c. Made my day. The bellows install may be "fun"however. Cheers

 

[Range-rover]

I would use a small fan by the table your working on it might help with the
dust. Glad to hear you got it all cleaned off and the lens is clean.

 

[x-ray]

Excellent!

 

[topaz]

Just a wrap up here. I woke up thinking of how to make a tool to pull the bellows back in to the body. Something to hook under the flange on the bellows ring. But I tried a 90 degree dental tool, and was able to snug it in. Noticed a bit of fungus in the viewing lens. Removed lenses and spacers, cleaned and replaced. Kind of tricky, but I did not change the focus adjustment. All done. Works great.
It is a testament to the German engineers, this camera. Logical, and well built. Just need patience and small tools. Cheers

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Just a wrap up here. I woke up thinking of how to make a tool to pull the bellows back in to the body. Something to hook under the flange on the bellows ring. But I tried a 90 degree dental tool, and was able to snug it in. Noticed a bit of fungus in the viewing lens. Removed lenses and spacers, cleaned and replaced. Kind of tricky, but I did not change the focus adjustment. All done. Works great.
It is a testament to the German engineers, this camera. Logical, and well built. Just need patience and small tools. Cheers

Well done. I find Rolleis, in general, to be very rewarding cameras to work on because of the quality of materials used. One can have faith that, when attended to with due care, they will nearly always work exactly as intended: they really were built to last.
Cheers,
Brett