Rolleiflex 2.8C Xenotar - spots on front lens?

[seblock]

Hey guys! I just bought a ex-cond 2.8C Xenotar Flex from a serious shop in the UK. Besides some wear and cosmetical defects, the Camera performs great, times und film transport just works rock solid. I just finished a roll of trix to test the image quality and the results were excellent!

However, as i inspected the lenses today with a penlight front and back, i saw a lot of very tiny spots on the front lens. There are also some minor cleaning marks but i was told about them and i dont worry about them at all. The coating is near to mint except for these tiny marks.

So i did a research on the web ans esp. rff and found some old threads about similar problems. Some users said that it could be some spots from salt water oder saliva.
So i first blow of the dust particles and wiped over the lens with a very smooth lensbrush. Then i carefully tried to clean off some of the marks with a lenspen, but with no result.

So my questions are:

1. What are these tiny stains/drops and where did they possibly come from?

2. Can i clean the lens myself, say with lens cleaner/ demineralized water/ isoprop or

3. Have it cleaned by a professional, say whilst giving it a regular cla?

4. Should i just return the camera for a refund?

To make it clear, it appears that the spots are really just on the front coated lens element and, as i can judge, do not affect the results.

To give you some impression i made some crappy iphone pics :angel: It may look a little bit like haze or fog, but its really just these tiny spots, otherwise the lens is crispy clear.

I really hope you guys got any hints about this. Please excuse my bad english 😀
Thank you, greetings from germany

Sebastian

And a edited negscan:

 

[f16sunshine]

Looks like you are getting the results one could expect from a clean camera. I'm not sure I would do much more than invest in a proper shade. Maybe additionally, shield the front from strong light with your hand on occasion. The damage looks like etching left from fungus growth. Not saying that with 100% certainty but by looking at your pictures it does appear to be such. If the price was satisfactory just keep it. It's a 50+ year old camera. Somethings gotta give. Try gently cleaning with isopropyl and a cotton swab. If it's grease or dirt a lens pen will damage. Wet clean first to loosen any contaminates. Nice sample photo BTW.

Cheers!

 

[archeophoto]

It obviously does not affect your images, so I would not worry about it. People pay WAYYYYYY to much attention to cleaning and coating marks, dust and scratches. That's good for us that actually USE the cameras. Keeps prices low(er)

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Hi,
a lovely model Rolleiflex but the Xenotar coatings can develop the speckling problem your shows. I have one here that is much much worse on a 2.8D that will probably have to be re-coated. As others have said if the photos look good, just go with it. I guess you could take the front cell out and strip and clean it and the other lens surfaces if you are up to the job, but otherwise just enjoy using a beautiful and superlative camera.
Regards
Brett

 

[Dan Daniel]

Going to take a different tack and say that the test image shows a decent amount of flare and low contrast fogging for a Xenotar. I know, scanning, processing, dropping down to fit on the web make such calls hard. But I don't see the crispness and local contrast that a Xenotar can give.

Looking at the photos of the lens itself, it's pretty scratched up. Looks like there might also be lots of small scratches in the coatings.

Well, just to give another opinion. I *have* seen what scratches and coating marks can do to a lens's renderings, and personally I have no interest in going that way again.

Maybe another photo, less blown highlights and such?

And please, do not use a lens pen on soft 60 year old coatings. Here's a guiide from a telescope company, people who are much more seriuous about avoiding scratches than photographers- http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3_page.asp?id=103
(and please note their warning at the end about using acetone on camera lenses! short answer- don't.)

 

[Range-rover]

That's a great camera, have you tried Zeiss lens Cleaner. I use that on all my
lenses new and old with no problems. I'm sure they have it their as well,
my Nikkor 35mm f2.5 has slight scratches as well, but the pictures come
fine as yours. I do clean with Zeiss lens cleaner, spray some on a folded piece of
lens cleaning tissue (I use Kim wipes from kimberly-Clark) rub that lightly and
clean whats left with a new piece and it comes out pretty nice. but everyone
uses a different approach to lens cleaning.

Range

 

[Frontman]

I have a 2.8 C with a lens in similar condition to yours, and it takes wonderful photos. The scratches can cause flaring or "glow" when shooting on sunny days or in bright light, a hood will help tame these.

Personally, I would keep the camera. The lens is a little scratchy, but that is usually the case with old Rolleis. The Xenotar can be polished up and recoated more easily (and less expensively) than the Planar.

Your camera seems to be working quite well at the moment, you can shoot it as-is, and get it serviced later on if you like.

 

[seblock]

Thank you guys for your thoughts so far.

Having shot a second test roll, i think i will keep the camera. The results look good to me and the lens thing is not giving me sleepless nights so far. I will look out for a haze/uv filter for protection and a shade for dealing better with the flaring.

Dan Daniel: I get your point, thank you very much. Youre right, there is a bit more flare then one would consider as usual, which as you say is caused by the fine scratches and dots on the coating. Thanks a lot for the cleaning tips too, i will stick to them in the future!

I also might try the Zeiss cleaner as suggested by Range-rover, thank you.

I just made some highres shots to show you the front lens a little bit better:

And here are two shots, one from the first roll (trix), and one from a roll of acros. I know the second is overexposed, i should have taken f5.6 or f8 instead of f4. But despite of the scratches and marks on the coating, i think the sharpness is pretty good. Well, say for me personally, i dont have any 2.8 to compare with 😀 But i would say that thy planar on my 500cm is just a tiny bit sharper at this fstop. The pictures are sharpened a little bit though, just to let you know.

So thank your very much for your opinions. Maybe anybody still has some hints for cleaning /having cleaned the front lens?

Another thing, here is why i also decided to keep the camera. Yesterday while inspecting the lenses, i found some fungus on both the viewing lens and the mirror. You know, those light spider webs. There was also a lot of dust on the mirror and inside the mirror area. So i disassembled the finder and started to clean the mirror with a soft cloth and some isoprop after blowing out all of the dust. It worked out great, the fungus was entirely gone.
Luckly the funugs on the viewing lens was on the back element only so i was able to clean the lens too. I think this could have come from some humid air which somehow got in the mirror area? However, lens and mirror are perfectly clean now. The screen is pretty ok with only some light scratches, but i think i will go for a maxwell anyway.

Thanks again for your help!
cheers

Sebastian

 

[Dan Daniel]

The reason I brought up the negative aspects of such scratches is in case you have the option to return it. Whether that is an option or not, it sounds as if you are quite happy with the camera. The images look wonderful. My 2.8 C Xenotar stands in a class of its own for me. I hope you have many happy shoots with yours!