topaz
Established
Received my Rolleiflex 2.8c back from a noted S. California repairman. Appears the repair was done correctly. Will shoot tomorrow and assess. I was traveling through Redding last week and stopped at a second hand shop. There was a Rolleiflex 2.8 D in an old glass case. It was like new. As if never used. The Xenotar lens the most perfect I have seen. Ever. I really did not need this camera, but..... Including the case, lens caps, and strap and two luna pro light meters, $410. So I had to buy it.
Smooth transport(had two rolls of Acros with me), and a smooth shutter at all speeds.
Shot a roll. Good. Next roll Sunday, issues with shutter. Old grease. Have it here on the table. Pulled front cover, and have it working well again. Using my q tips and favorite lubes. Did not have to disassemble Compur. Yet anyway.
I did go through a compur about ten years ago. I bought an Automat from an auction site for $78 recently, to pull apart and refresh my memory for repair on my other Rolleis. Problem is, the Automat is perfect. Besides all leather removal, and front panel removal, it is too nice to sacrifice as a re-learning tool.
I need screws for this Automat front cover, as the seller neglected to send them.
I also need side cover screws for an orphaned 3.5e that I brought back to useability.
Does anyone here know where these may be available? What size are the brass sideplate screws? Size of the Automat front plate screws? (they are smaller)
It was interesting to pull the sidecover off of my C model after it had been repaired. I could see where Harry lubed it.
Lubed the E in the same way. Very smooth.
Screw size refernces greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Smooth transport(had two rolls of Acros with me), and a smooth shutter at all speeds.
Shot a roll. Good. Next roll Sunday, issues with shutter. Old grease. Have it here on the table. Pulled front cover, and have it working well again. Using my q tips and favorite lubes. Did not have to disassemble Compur. Yet anyway.
I did go through a compur about ten years ago. I bought an Automat from an auction site for $78 recently, to pull apart and refresh my memory for repair on my other Rolleis. Problem is, the Automat is perfect. Besides all leather removal, and front panel removal, it is too nice to sacrifice as a re-learning tool.
I need screws for this Automat front cover, as the seller neglected to send them.
I also need side cover screws for an orphaned 3.5e that I brought back to useability.
Does anyone here know where these may be available? What size are the brass sideplate screws? Size of the Automat front plate screws? (they are smaller)
It was interesting to pull the sidecover off of my C model after it had been repaired. I could see where Harry lubed it.
Lubed the E in the same way. Very smooth.
Screw size refernces greatly appreciated. Thank you.
R
rick oleson
Guest
Have you tried http://www.dagcamera.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html ?
x-ray
Veteran
I bought a Rolleicord V a few weeks ago from a little antique shop. It was in nice shape and the shutter worked fine. It came with the case and a Rollei hood and case for $50. A week ago I walked into another little shop near my home and found a Russian Horizon 202 in good shape and working perfectly. The asking price was $25. Naturally I bought it.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
$410 for a 2.8 Xenotar?? And I was in Redding two months ago, but just passing through. Well, congratulations.
I've had a few Synchro-Compurs come back by simply dripping naphtha on the obvious points- small amounts- a few times, then the lightest oil back on these points. Pull the cocking ring and clean its inner surface, the apply a light coat of light grease and wipe it off. I've gotten a few years out of shutters this way.
Rollei used different threads all over the cameras. I think this was to avoid mistakes by using the wrong screw, either in length or in head type. I do know that there are three thread types on the front- lens shroud, outer shroud, and focus rails. Side panel screws are interchangeable model to model, best as I can remember.
Any photos of the C internal lubing?
I've had a few Synchro-Compurs come back by simply dripping naphtha on the obvious points- small amounts- a few times, then the lightest oil back on these points. Pull the cocking ring and clean its inner surface, the apply a light coat of light grease and wipe it off. I've gotten a few years out of shutters this way.
Rollei used different threads all over the cameras. I think this was to avoid mistakes by using the wrong screw, either in length or in head type. I do know that there are three thread types on the front- lens shroud, outer shroud, and focus rails. Side panel screws are interchangeable model to model, best as I can remember.
Any photos of the C internal lubing?
topaz
Established
Thanks for replies. I looked through my screw cache and was able to find 4 screws that allowed me to reassemble the Automat. I have made a few images with the camera, and will finish the roll tomorrow. I want to sell it, perhaps to a student at a good price.
Although I have found the Xenar (Automat) lens to be excellent, I, personally, can not find a more precise lens than the Xenotar. I do shoot with Planar. To me (my own humble opinion), the Planar is more for Art photography. Good. Excellent. But for absolute precision, I believe that the Xenotar, 5 element cannot be beat.
I shoot large format also, and Xenotar is rare and costly glass.
I am no expert, I am a VW, Porsche mechanic 30 years. After dinner, the table is cleared and out come my cameras and tools. I really enjoy this. It is logical, and complicated.
I sent my 2.8c to a noted S. California repairman. Being very busy I wanted the maintenance/service done right. It was two months and received the camera back with a $412 cost. Nice job on transport and shutter. But I had a bad light leak. Long story short, the shop forgot to install my light baffle and plate. Two parts left out. I went through 7 rolls of film, I packed up the camera twice to send it back. Was told an estimate and 2.5 months would be expected.
I told the repairman, my light leak appeared to be at the automat roller(you guys here helped me with this). He told me he does not fix this and use it as an "indoor" camera.
So I pulled the sideplate I noted the missing parts.(Dan helped me with this), I saw the issue.
I was told to send it back and even though I had pulled the sidecover, therefore no guarantee coverage, an exception would be made for me, since they had forgotten to re assemble properly.
I developed 2,8c film yesterday, shot at Greyhound Rock. No light leak. Great. I did hear the repairman talking to an associate who had my camera disassembled while I was on the phone. Logical. Harry can't do it all. Just so you know. Your repair may be done under the supervision or not, of an expert. That's OK.
I did note that, once the side cover was pulled, that shop applies a small amount of grease to the film uptake spool gear. This interacts with an idler gear, which is then in contact with the main gear driven by the advance lever. There is a spring steel button which contacts the side plate. There is a small amount of grease here too.
I have a lot of fun learning here. I have my 2.8 d shutter working well, with one caveat. Focus must be racked out. Otherwise I just get a click, no shutter firing. So I am thinking linkage? Still learning.
Although I have found the Xenar (Automat) lens to be excellent, I, personally, can not find a more precise lens than the Xenotar. I do shoot with Planar. To me (my own humble opinion), the Planar is more for Art photography. Good. Excellent. But for absolute precision, I believe that the Xenotar, 5 element cannot be beat.
I shoot large format also, and Xenotar is rare and costly glass.
I am no expert, I am a VW, Porsche mechanic 30 years. After dinner, the table is cleared and out come my cameras and tools. I really enjoy this. It is logical, and complicated.
I sent my 2.8c to a noted S. California repairman. Being very busy I wanted the maintenance/service done right. It was two months and received the camera back with a $412 cost. Nice job on transport and shutter. But I had a bad light leak. Long story short, the shop forgot to install my light baffle and plate. Two parts left out. I went through 7 rolls of film, I packed up the camera twice to send it back. Was told an estimate and 2.5 months would be expected.
I told the repairman, my light leak appeared to be at the automat roller(you guys here helped me with this). He told me he does not fix this and use it as an "indoor" camera.
So I pulled the sideplate I noted the missing parts.(Dan helped me with this), I saw the issue.
I was told to send it back and even though I had pulled the sidecover, therefore no guarantee coverage, an exception would be made for me, since they had forgotten to re assemble properly.
I developed 2,8c film yesterday, shot at Greyhound Rock. No light leak. Great. I did hear the repairman talking to an associate who had my camera disassembled while I was on the phone. Logical. Harry can't do it all. Just so you know. Your repair may be done under the supervision or not, of an expert. That's OK.
I did note that, once the side cover was pulled, that shop applies a small amount of grease to the film uptake spool gear. This interacts with an idler gear, which is then in contact with the main gear driven by the advance lever. There is a spring steel button which contacts the side plate. There is a small amount of grease here too.
I have a lot of fun learning here. I have my 2.8 d shutter working well, with one caveat. Focus must be racked out. Otherwise I just get a click, no shutter firing. So I am thinking linkage? Still learning.
As I recall, procedures for checking and adjusting this may be covered in the factory manual. It is one of the standard checks they instruct should be carried out, to ensure the shutter cocking and release functions correctly at all parts of the lens board travel. The 2.8D is not specifically covered, but if you check the relevant sections for the E models, it will be close enough to help you sort it. You can get a free download of the manual here, it is almost 60 megabytes, and over 400 pages.
Cheers
Brett
Dan Daniel
Well-known
The D shutter issue could be related to the travel of the shutter cocking lever. Here's under the wind plate-
The part circled in pink is the tab on the actual cocking arm. As you rotate the wind lever, an attached arm pulls this part up, driving the shutter cocking on the lens board. The part with the pink arrow pointing to it- the whole plate that runs up and down, one screw and two pegs- is the limiter of the shutter cocking lever. If you loosen the screw the arrow points to, you can rotate the small washer with the two slots. This is an eccentric cam that will slide the whole arm up and down. And this arm moves with the focus rail, so its action has some eccentricty of its own.
With the wind plate in place, there is an opening to allow access to this adjustment. Rollei was ready for this to be adjusted as standard practice.
I'll make an index mark, then loosen/rotate/tighten this washer in 1/8 turn intervals. Test at far and near focus, 1/500 and 1 second and B speeds. Test again and again. You don't want to be too far beyond what is needed as this will put excess pressure on the shutter mechanism.
Since this shot showed it, I figured I'd call out the Automat film feeler adjustment screws. Yellow circle. Another eccentric cam that determines travel under the upper screw. The lower screw, large slotted at the very bottom, needs to be loosened before adjusting the eccentric and tightened afterwards.
There are parts missing, the lever and springs that drive the inner parts of the Automat mechanism. There are ways to test and adjust the film sensor action, but that's another story.
Sort of hiding your Fleenor experience inside another thread, eh?
The part circled in pink is the tab on the actual cocking arm. As you rotate the wind lever, an attached arm pulls this part up, driving the shutter cocking on the lens board. The part with the pink arrow pointing to it- the whole plate that runs up and down, one screw and two pegs- is the limiter of the shutter cocking lever. If you loosen the screw the arrow points to, you can rotate the small washer with the two slots. This is an eccentric cam that will slide the whole arm up and down. And this arm moves with the focus rail, so its action has some eccentricty of its own.
With the wind plate in place, there is an opening to allow access to this adjustment. Rollei was ready for this to be adjusted as standard practice.
I'll make an index mark, then loosen/rotate/tighten this washer in 1/8 turn intervals. Test at far and near focus, 1/500 and 1 second and B speeds. Test again and again. You don't want to be too far beyond what is needed as this will put excess pressure on the shutter mechanism.
Since this shot showed it, I figured I'd call out the Automat film feeler adjustment screws. Yellow circle. Another eccentric cam that determines travel under the upper screw. The lower screw, large slotted at the very bottom, needs to be loosened before adjusting the eccentric and tightened afterwards.
There are parts missing, the lever and springs that drive the inner parts of the Automat mechanism. There are ways to test and adjust the film sensor action, but that's another story.
Sort of hiding your Fleenor experience inside another thread, eh?
topaz
Established
Thanks Dan You are a great arbiter of Rolleiflex technique. And, yes, if I can, I would prefer to not send my camera out again. Reminds me of some auto shops. Just leave the car, leave your credit card, and don't ask a lot of questions. Unacceptable to this mechanic.
Spavinaw
Well-known
Just a helpful tip not specific to Rollei. I have used the tiny screws from broken eyeglasses frames for camera repair. They come in more than one size.
topaz
Established
You are absolutely right. I had an eyeglass repair kit, and one of the screws(w/o a shoulder) was a fit. With the sideplate off again to look at the mechanism and compare to Dans' pics, it does look like the shutter actuating lever starts from a higher position with the focus racked out. With focus racked in, the lever is in a lower position. It has to move to compensate. That lever has an elongated hole where it mounts via a screw to the body. So when starting the crank in motion, lever lower starting position, it is just not quite enough to cock. The click I hear is a smaller transport lever resetting. Maybe this lever position is where I can make an adjustment, either in transport side, or front panel
topaz
Established
I see that adjustment screw inside the access hole now Dan. Yes, there is a small slot milled there which would allow a tiny screwdriver to turn it once the screw is loosened. I will try that after dinner. Thanks
Dan Daniel
Well-known
One thing I have learned is to be very careful and circumspect in modifying any stock part in a Rolleiflex!! If a lever appears to be 'too short' or not traveling properly so maybe a bend here or there will make it work- Whoa!! Back off.
The odds are that the part is just fine. Rollei parts are generally very well-made and sturdy. If you doubt this, buy a junk Yashica-Mat and open it up- you'll see what 'stamped metal' with no finishing, etc. look and feels like. If I start thinking that I need to bend or file a Rollei part, I will usually stop, disassemble back to a point where things seemed fine, and then reassemble. Almost always it turns out that I made a mistake in assembly. Very rarely did Rollei make a mistake in engineering a part that could handle the stresses of its function and would wear out of tolerance.
The only Yashica-Mat repair document (factory issue) I have seen are exploded diagrams. Minolta's Autocord repiar manual has about 4 specified adjustments, including one that involves a punch and hammer to bend a large metal plate (seriously- this is how you take up side-to-side rotation motion in the lens plate- hammer a part to wider splay). The Rollei manual has maybe 10 major adjustment routines with tolerances called out. Parts include built-in designs and mechanisms to do the adjustments. It's why I like working on Rolleis- everything is done well. Every single little thing. And they were made to be worked on. Being able to work on them was designed in.
The odds are that the part is just fine. Rollei parts are generally very well-made and sturdy. If you doubt this, buy a junk Yashica-Mat and open it up- you'll see what 'stamped metal' with no finishing, etc. look and feels like. If I start thinking that I need to bend or file a Rollei part, I will usually stop, disassemble back to a point where things seemed fine, and then reassemble. Almost always it turns out that I made a mistake in assembly. Very rarely did Rollei make a mistake in engineering a part that could handle the stresses of its function and would wear out of tolerance.
The only Yashica-Mat repair document (factory issue) I have seen are exploded diagrams. Minolta's Autocord repiar manual has about 4 specified adjustments, including one that involves a punch and hammer to bend a large metal plate (seriously- this is how you take up side-to-side rotation motion in the lens plate- hammer a part to wider splay). The Rollei manual has maybe 10 major adjustment routines with tolerances called out. Parts include built-in designs and mechanisms to do the adjustments. It's why I like working on Rolleis- everything is done well. Every single little thing. And they were made to be worked on. Being able to work on them was designed in.
Range-rover
Veteran
I'm bring back this thread, I have a 2.8C, it loads really smooth but the film sensing
click that you hear when you engage the first part of the film is quieter than my
3.5F which clicks louder. when testing the 2.8C it seems fine but that click is softer
should I be concerned.
click that you hear when you engage the first part of the film is quieter than my
3.5F which clicks louder. when testing the 2.8C it seems fine but that click is softer
should I be concerned.
If it is consistently functioning correctly, I wouldn't be too concerned. The roller eccentric is set according to the clearance needed to trip the frame counter, not by how loud it is, when it activates.
Cheers,
Brett
Cheers,
Brett