S3 2000 vs. S3 Olympic

[bucs]

I have the oppotunity and (FINALLY) the funds to buy either an S3 Olympic with black Nikkor-H 5cm f/2 (mismatched) or a S3 Y2K (chrome/silver) with black Millenium Nikkor 5cm f/1.4.

I am torn. I really want to get the S3 Olympic because of the black paint (!!!) but a part of me somehow thinks the S3 Y2K kit would be a better buy for the newer VF optics/coating (?), possibly better RF patch, and newer lens. I would be primarily using a W Nikkor 35mm f/2.5 though.

I should mention both kits will be bought online so I don’t have the opportunity to check in person. At least based on the pics and description both are described as mint. The price is difference is about $70 with S3 Y2K kit being more expensive.

Thoughts? Advice?

 

[TenEleven]

First of all, I am sure you are knowledgeable about this, since you have been posting here for a while.

But, just in case please be careful of cameras described as "Mint" mint can mean it looks nice externally and does not work well at all. Sadly especially sellers from Japan capitalize from the (deserved) good reputation the camera shops have here and capitalize it by hocking what can't be sold in shops to unsuspecting buyers online. I have literally seen shops divide the gear up into two of these fold out plastic boxes. The nice stuff that went in a box that said nothing and the ... let's say not so nice stuff .. went in a box that had a printed paper on it that said ネット通販専用 meaning for online shopping only...

They can charge a premium for in-person items for two main reasons:
- they know the item is in at least decent condition (many stores will give you anywhere from a week to 6 months of returns or repairs)
- most the camera shopping tourists are under time pressure and do not have the ability to shop around all that much

I am not saying that this is all of them - there are of course scrupulous online sellers and private sellers which I would exempt from this. But how do you know? Basically I would be very wary if I can not check a big ticket item in person and am not 100% sure I have a 100% bomb-proof path of returning it.

That all out of the way there's a couple of other things to consider:

The S3 2000 focus wheel is going to be 100% squeaky by now - I have looked at 4-6 and they all squeaked.
It does not have any other effect, but if the squeak annoys you it will need service. Factor that into your decisions.

Secondly the multi-coating of the finder is really not that much of a difference. Side by side with a good vintage silver S3 I could not tell the difference. I could imagine it having more of an effect for the SP since it's finder (especially the wide angle one) is much more complex with a lot more glass.

Lastly the Olympic 50/1.4 lens - dubbed the "Millenium Nikkor" is basically a modern double-gauss design lens with multi-coating very sharp rendering. It has a bit of barrel distortion but no other vices worth mentioning. The later 50/2 Nikkor are Sonnar design lenses and are good all-rounders - but the pictures from it are definitely going to look a lot more vintage.

As for me, I went with a Nikon SP because I dislike 1:1 35mm finders. It's virtually impossible to see the entire frame unless you move your eyes. I know this is something of a personal preference and some people swear by it - still felt this was worth pointing out.

 

[bucs]

Thank you very much for the detailed response! This helps a lot. I am aware of the risks and had considered buying through a proxy service, after trying a few times. However, as you said high value items like this should be treated differently.

I think the safest way to go about this is to have a local friend check and inspect for me, given the limited return window.

I had a 5cm Nikkor in S mount before (not Millenium) and it always seemed to have veiling flare wide open. I much prefer the Nikkor 5cm f/2 and also because it is smaller.

 

[TenEleven]

I assume you mean the Nikkor-S 50/1.4, which is also a Sonnar design.

Yeah, while I like that lens - I agree - it definitely glows a lot more at full aperture than the Zeiss Sonnars which it copied.

I always felt that the design was a bit overstretched at f/1.4. That said, by f/2 it outperforms the 50/2 in the center.
However the f/2 will have a larger area of decent sharpness for each aperture VS the f/1.4. A good copy of the f/2 should be suitable for landscape photography (sharp into the corners) by f/3.5 (leaving it between f/2.8 and 4) or so already. The f/1.4 gets there by f/8 which is quite a bit later - and the corners never get quite as good as the f2.

Hence my statement about the 50/2 Nikkor S being a good "all rounder".

 

[bucs]

I see. I didn’t know the Milennium Nikkor is a totally different lens compared to the Nikkor-S 5cm f/1.4. I had the latter and I didn’t like the “character” wide open.

I feel like there’s more value for these Nikon RFs, even the special editions, nowadays especially since Leica Ms have shot up in terms of price.

 

[cassel]

I have the black S3 2002 edition and an older repaint S3 in good shape - they both feel VERY similar. The newer one doesn't feel quite as smooth as the old one- probably because the new one only has a few rolls thru it!
That said- I am looking to buy an Olympic S3 - with a bit of age to it - I just like the brassy look.

 

[NIKON KIU]

I do see S3 Olympic w proper lens for the same price.

I’m not implying you should buy the above, just giving example… they are probably cheaper in Japan.

Just because you have the funds ready doesn’t mean the ideal camera is available right now.
You need to do more shopping.

Kiu

 

[Ken Ford]

I bought a S3 2K about ten years ago and wasn’t happy because it wasn’t the Olympic I truly wanted, I’ve never even used it. This year I finally found a nice used Olympic and am much, much happier.

Pick the one you really want, both are good choices. In my case black paint and titanium shutter curtains were the key for me.

 

[TenEleven]

I had forgotten that the 2000 models (the SP, too?) had cloth curtains. But yeah that is definitely another consideration.

That being said, metal curtains are not indestructible either - I had my first metal curtain fail this year. I assume due to the material fatiguing from constant use. It tore during normal operation (the wind did not feel stiff or anything) at the point where it flexes the most as it wraps around the drum; at the end of the curtain where it meets the ribbons and clamp securing it.

Edit: It also tore gradually - first it showed up as what Leica users would know as pin holes on the exposure, which quickly (over the course of just two rolls) got worse before it failed catastrophically.

The camera looked like it had seen hard, but careful use. I replaced both curtains from a parts camera which had a smashed finder.

 

[bucs]

Thank you for the responses. I am already looking at a few options/listings. Will report back soon!

 

[justins7]

Don't forget about the visibility of the rangefinder patch. I bought a (possibly original) black S3 Olympic a few years ago from Japan at a good price. Everything works well — except the rangefinder patch is pretty dim. That's my only disappointment since I am used to bright ones like a Leica M. I could get it CLA'd but just have not done so yet since I am now used to it.

 

[bucs]

Just curious…


What’s the going rate for Nikon S3 Olympic bodies (no lens) in Japan? Well-used (with brassing and dents) and the opposite (dare I say exc/near mint?)? Just want to benchmark online eBay prices vs. those in camera shops.

Obviously there’s a huge benefit in being able to see the cameras in person but return policies are also quite lenient with Japan eBay sellers so I suppose if I get a lemon I’d be able to return it.

 

[BillBingham2]

Aren’t the S3 Olympic titanium shutters vs cloth on the S3 2Ks?

 

[NIKON KIU]

Correct.
All reproductions are cloth shutters including SP 2005

 

[cassel]

I have been close to hitting the "buy" button for a couple of months now on a Nikon S3 Olympic Black body (632 number series). I don't have to have the lens included...
I have not been able to sell enough gear yet and the tariff/shipping expense and associated unknowns have keep me from buying. There do not seem to be ANY for sale in the US - only the 2002 model.
I am starting to see some dealers advertising "DDP" (delivery duties paid) to try and get US buyers back. Seems like a good sign but it is hard to get straight answers on actual fees and shipping... If I can sell a couple more cameras at the the Seattle/Renton Camera show on October 4th - I'm going to give it a go...

Anyone have any more info or ideas?

 

[bucs]

I have been close to hitting the "buy" button for a couple of months now on a Nikon S3 Olympic Black body (632 number series). I don't have to have the lens included...
I have not been able to sell enough gear yet and the tariff/shipping expense and associated unknowns have keep me from buying. There do not seem to be ANY for sale in the US - only the 2002 model.
I am starting to see some dealers advertising "DDP" (delivery duties paid) to try and get US buyers back. Seems like a good sign but it is hard to get straight answers on actual fees and shipping... If I can sell a couple more cameras at the the Seattle/Renton Camera show on October 4th - I'm going to give it a go...

Anyone have any more info or ideas?

evilbay seems to have a lot of copies for sale now. Granted from Japan. I just pulled the trigger on one. I can easily return if there are problems. I’m not from the US so I don’t have issues with tariffs.

The return policies are quite lenient so I can return and buy another copy if the one I bought has problems.

Goodluck with the search!

 

[NIKON KIU]

…..
I am starting to see some dealers advertising "DDP" (delivery duties paid) to try and get US buyers back. Seems like a good sign but it is hard to get straight answers on actual fees and shipping... If I can sell a couple more cameras at the the Seattle/Renton Camera show on October 4th - I'm going to give it a go...

Anyone have any more info or ideas?

Bob Rotoloni has one for sale…boxed!

To clear the shipping dilemma…the sender has to pay. Unless they make you pay some of it.

Kiu

 

[WJJ3]

Just curious…


What’s the going rate for Nikon S3 Olympic bodies (no lens) in Japan? Well-used (with brassing and dents) and the opposite (dare I say exc/near mint?)? Just want to benchmark online eBay prices vs. those in camera shops.

Obviously there’s a huge benefit in being able to see the cameras in person but return policies are also quite lenient with Japan eBay sellers so I suppose if I get a lemon I’d be able to return it.

There is no straightforward answer to this. I paid about ¥300,000 for a set that has a heavy patina at a shop in Sapporo in 2022, but the same set at Map would likely go for much more. The shop in Sapporo had an excellent condition set at the same time they wanted ¥500,000 for, IIRC

 

[cassel]

Aaarg! One that I had my eye on just sold - it had been updated to reflect included duties ($300) and sold almost immediately. It was odd though, because it had a correct Olympic serial number BUT the focus was in FEET not meters - pretty sure that was NOT a thing? since they were all made for the Japanese market.

 

[cassel]

Bob Rotoloni has one for sale…boxed!

To clear the shipping dilemma…the sender has to pay. Unless they make you pay some of it.

Kiu

Where would I find Bob's ad?