Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
Steve, I have all three Bessa II models and the one with the APO-Lanthar lens has a swivel mask and two red windows on the back.
This camera shown by the OP is different than mine. I think it only shoots 6x9.
This camera shown by the OP is different than mine. I think it only shoots 6x9.
kuzano
Veteran
Distinctions on various Bessa II folders.
Distinctions on various Bessa II folders.
The biggest distinction was the three lens choices and the values.
A) Color Skopar.... entry level lens... with good IQ
B) Heliar ..... 5 element (I think).. nice examples $500 - $600 est.
C) Apo Lanthar. A rare earth element-lanthanum-is used in the glass to increase the refractive index of the glass. Hence Apo Lanthar. Zeiss and others used Lanthanum.
The Bessa II's that I have seen with Apo Lanthar lenses have all sold in excess of $2000. Partially because of rarity in numbers and the Lanthanum process.
Interestingly, the "other" more often found lens using Lanthanum is the Rodenstock Ysarex 127 lens (Tessar formula) used in the Polaroid Pathfinder 110, 110A, and 110B cameras everybody is modifying for hand held large format. (Littman, Razzle, etc.) That lens is quite sharp and capable, but is often considered a "dime a dozen" lens, notwithstanding the lanthanum glass.
I've used the Polaroid Rodenstock Ysarex in Polaroid shutter for large format on the front of Graflex and Graflex Super cameras for excellent results considering it's a >$100 lens when found in excellent condition.
So, perceptions rules again when you consider the large value difference in the Apo Lanthar 105 found on the Bessa II and the much lower value when lanthanum is found in the Rodenstock Ysarex glass on the front of a lowly and obsolete Polaroid camera.
Distinctions on various Bessa II folders.
OK ... can someone explain to a Bessa folder ludite what's so special about the Lanthar and what were the alternatives!
The biggest distinction was the three lens choices and the values.
A) Color Skopar.... entry level lens... with good IQ
B) Heliar ..... 5 element (I think).. nice examples $500 - $600 est.
C) Apo Lanthar. A rare earth element-lanthanum-is used in the glass to increase the refractive index of the glass. Hence Apo Lanthar. Zeiss and others used Lanthanum.
The Bessa II's that I have seen with Apo Lanthar lenses have all sold in excess of $2000. Partially because of rarity in numbers and the Lanthanum process.
Interestingly, the "other" more often found lens using Lanthanum is the Rodenstock Ysarex 127 lens (Tessar formula) used in the Polaroid Pathfinder 110, 110A, and 110B cameras everybody is modifying for hand held large format. (Littman, Razzle, etc.) That lens is quite sharp and capable, but is often considered a "dime a dozen" lens, notwithstanding the lanthanum glass.
I've used the Polaroid Rodenstock Ysarex in Polaroid shutter for large format on the front of Graflex and Graflex Super cameras for excellent results considering it's a >$100 lens when found in excellent condition.
So, perceptions rules again when you consider the large value difference in the Apo Lanthar 105 found on the Bessa II and the much lower value when lanthanum is found in the Rodenstock Ysarex glass on the front of a lowly and obsolete Polaroid camera.
Spotmatic
Member
dolphinss
Newbie
Its probably an earlier version, but it looks like its in excellent shape. You'll love the colors it can capture. Especially on slides.
You can see more sample photos from Bessa-II Apo Lanthar from this chinese forum...http://www.hklfc.com/forum/index.php?o=topic&act=show&id=19617&page=18 Some of the photos are absolutely stunning.
You can see more sample photos from Bessa-II Apo Lanthar from this chinese forum...http://www.hklfc.com/forum/index.php?o=topic&act=show&id=19617&page=18 Some of the photos are absolutely stunning.
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sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The late version Bessa II has the accessory shoe. I don't know whether there actually was a Apo Lanthar version with that body - pictures from camera shops can't be trusted (quite a few of the high-price Bessa IIs will have been tampered with), and the genuine collectors ones I've seen may have been all the old type. The Porst catalogues still listed the Apo Lanthar for sale when the late body was current, but that does not necessarily mean that it was actually configured that way, by other sources all A-L Bessa II's were built within a year. It is not that unusual for special camera configurations to use a older body after the mainstream versions have moved on.
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Spotmatic
Member
Thanks for the interesting information. I'm 100% certain that this camera is all original because the seller did not know anything about photography at all - he was just selling his old Grandpa's cameras (there was also a lesser-condition Rolleiflex T, a Contessamat LK and a Vitoret DR). I only took the Bessa II with me for unknown reasons. Actually the seller told me that he found on the internet that the Rolleiflex was an expensive camera! So he did some research but forgot to check on the lens name thing... :bang:
Actually I would say that this Bessa is very close to mint. There are no bright marks on the body that I can see and the leather(ette) is in an outstanding shape too. I need to look at the shutter beauty ring though (the ring around the lens barrel with a triangle pointing to the shutter speed) as it is loose and moves when the shutter speed dial is set. So at the moment I don't know which speed is set unless I set the ring at the most extreme positions.
By the way: I was also looking for Voigtländer price lists from that era to see how the different Bessa models compared pricewise. I have been unsuccessful, maybe someone can point me in the right direction? Many thanks!
Actually the seller told me that he found on the internet that the Rolleiflex was an expensive camera! So he did some research but forgot to check on the lens name thing... :bang:Actually I would say that this Bessa is very close to mint. There are no bright marks on the body that I can see and the leather(ette) is in an outstanding shape too. I need to look at the shutter beauty ring though (the ring around the lens barrel with a triangle pointing to the shutter speed) as it is loose and moves when the shutter speed dial is set. So at the moment I don't know which speed is set unless I set the ring at the most extreme positions.
By the way: I was also looking for Voigtländer price lists from that era to see how the different Bessa models compared pricewise. I have been unsuccessful, maybe someone can point me in the right direction? Many thanks!
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Spotmatic
Member
Just for fun I made this shot hand-held with my Pentax K-7 and 58mm f/2 Takumar wide open (did you know that it's the only SLR standard lens ever, from any maker, to have a Sonnar design?)
Note the f/4.5 position on the diaphragm scale. As you can see the lens and shutter combination is original, so it isn't like someone just placed the Apo-Lanthar lens on a body that was originally sold with a 'lesser' lens. But of course we'll never know if the whole lens/shutter combination was changed in the past, but based on the condition of the whole camera I'd say that it is completely original.
Note the f/4.5 position on the diaphragm scale. As you can see the lens and shutter combination is original, so it isn't like someone just placed the Apo-Lanthar lens on a body that was originally sold with a 'lesser' lens. But of course we'll never know if the whole lens/shutter combination was changed in the past, but based on the condition of the whole camera I'd say that it is completely original.
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sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Don't know a online source, but I know a library that has the full set of Quelle and Porst catalogues. Haven't copied the relevant pages, but I'll look it up the next time I research into something there.
Sevo
Spotmatic
Member
Thank you very much! Maybe there are some scanned catalogues online; I'll do a search.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
I strongly suppose the camera is original - a out-of-household pedigree is as good as can be. Besides, the Apo Lanthar Bessa II supposedly date back to 1956, the last year of production. It is some time since I last touched the Bessa file, my notes to "earlier body" may have to be read as "single format body", while the regular configuration for that year was the dual-format body.
Sevo
dolphinss
Newbie
Back in those days, the difference is probably $100-200 difference...because my dad had a few of them. These days, the difference is a $2000 or more between a Heliar and Apo-Lanthar.
I was offered more than $3000 for mine.
Krosya
Konicaze
Congrats on a Beautiful camera! I always wanted one of these, but could never make myself spend the money they usually go for. Hope you will enjoy it and will post some pics from it here.
As a side note - I wonder why Apo-Lanthar lens is only F4.5? I have a Weltur thats 6x9 and it has a simpler lens that is f3.8. Any reason they couldnt make Lanthar faster?
As a side note - I wonder why Apo-Lanthar lens is only F4.5? I have a Weltur thats 6x9 and it has a simpler lens that is f3.8. Any reason they couldnt make Lanthar faster?
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
chippy, the the DOF scale measure on the focus knob is present on all versions of the Bessa II.
There was an ebay auction several months ago where the seller claimed that the Bessa II he was selling had been retrofitted with an APO-Lanthar lens. Unfortunately I can no longer find that auction page.
Here you can see the front and the back of a typical Bessa II with the APO-Lanthar, which is exactly what mine looks like.
No matter, the APO-Lanthar takes outstanding images and I see no reason to shoot 4.5x6 when I can go 6x9 every time!
There was an ebay auction several months ago where the seller claimed that the Bessa II he was selling had been retrofitted with an APO-Lanthar lens. Unfortunately I can no longer find that auction page.
Here you can see the front and the back of a typical Bessa II with the APO-Lanthar, which is exactly what mine looks like.
No matter, the APO-Lanthar takes outstanding images and I see no reason to shoot 4.5x6 when I can go 6x9 every time!
oftheherd
Veteran
Impressive! But of course I would never want one.
Let us see some photos soon.
Let us see some photos soon.
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
Yes! My dof scale does show 4.5 on the A.L. model and 3.5 on the other models. I never noticed that before!
I think the OP has a version 5 bessa and not the version 6:
http://www.schoebels-voigtlaender-archiv.de/BildBessaII.html
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
owning a Bessa II w/apo lanthar is all about the details...having not noticed, i reckon you should sell yours and buy a boat
Funny! Do you think I could get so much for it?
The one with the Heliar is not aligned anymore but I use the other two regularly, one with b&w and the other with color negative film.
I have thought about selling before but they were grandpa's shooters and I have decided to keep them for now. I think I would only sell if a digital folder came out with a 6x9cm fuji sensor
FallisPhoto
Veteran
actualy we seem awash with bessa beauty in the past few days...things are looking UP!
Yeah. Lately, the people here have been sending me an inordinant number of Bessa RFs to fix up. I wonder what's up with that. Has someone been selling a bunch of them cheap? If so, where?
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
There was quite a series of RF's on ebay Germany lately - at least four Heliar ones last month went for about 130€ each. I wasn't interested in yet another, but I accidentally almost won a (supposedly) Helomar one which eventually went for a mere 79€.