jaffa_777
Established
Is it just me or is scanning print film really hard. The scans in terms of grain and sharpness are fine, but it's just the colours. The colours seem to need a lot of correcting in photoshop or in the scanning software, and there seems to be a million different ways and outcomes. Especially with silverfast, this is one comprehensive program that has just too many options.
I have worked on this photo most of tonight to get it where it is now. Its taken on Portra 160NC. If I tried to get all the ones in the series all looking the same in terms of colour consistency, I might be up for a while.
How do you guys tackle this?
Thanks people.
I have worked on this photo most of tonight to get it where it is now. Its taken on Portra 160NC. If I tried to get all the ones in the series all looking the same in terms of colour consistency, I might be up for a while.
How do you guys tackle this?
Thanks people.
DavidH
Overweight and over here
Well - possibly depends on what version of silverfast you have...I use Ai...
...in the 'film type and exposure' dialog, click on the 'teacher' button, ensure the color histograms have ins and outs set to the displayed histogram (tweak if needs be - or use the auto ensuring the film mask isnt sleected since this will bias the colors)...then in main dialog, fine tune in Global Color Correction - or Selective Color Correction (my favourite since it gives really tunable results) then save the config. This should then be a close fit for that type of film...fine tune each one as necessary or scan all the same and tune in Pshop.
I prefer to fine tune in Silverfast and then finish in Pshop for local dodging and burning.
I love Silverfast for the control - and get some really nice colors out of neg film - and in fact no longer shoot slides because neg gives great results and can equal the colors of slide film in a scan.
Good luck!
That's a great shot by the way...
...in the 'film type and exposure' dialog, click on the 'teacher' button, ensure the color histograms have ins and outs set to the displayed histogram (tweak if needs be - or use the auto ensuring the film mask isnt sleected since this will bias the colors)...then in main dialog, fine tune in Global Color Correction - or Selective Color Correction (my favourite since it gives really tunable results) then save the config. This should then be a close fit for that type of film...fine tune each one as necessary or scan all the same and tune in Pshop.
I prefer to fine tune in Silverfast and then finish in Pshop for local dodging and burning.
I love Silverfast for the control - and get some really nice colors out of neg film - and in fact no longer shoot slides because neg gives great results and can equal the colors of slide film in a scan.
Good luck!
That's a great shot by the way...
Monz
Monz
My scanner (Epson F3200) came with Silverfast and a simpler Epson software. When installed, both software packages interfaced with Photoshop allowing direct capture from Photoshop. Initially, I used Silverfast but started having trouble with colour negative film (wierd unrealistic colours etc). I now use just the Epson software (which allows quite a bit of flexibility: curves, levels, brightness, contrast, hue etc) scanning at the maximum resolution of 3200dpi and then doing final adjustments in Photoshop.
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Monz
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Monz
Jamie123
Veteran
Silverfast's profile for portra NC usually gives me a slight yellow cast. Most of the time auto-color in PS fixes it.
Print film can get quite tricky sometimes but I like it a lot more than slide film. There's just something special about the tonality of print film.
Print film can get quite tricky sometimes but I like it a lot more than slide film. There's just something special about the tonality of print film.
jaffa_777
Established
Thanks for the tips David, I will try them tonight.
Yes Jamie, I agree print film can quite rewarding, but it seems to take a lot more work after scanning compared to slide. Slide you just know whether you got it right or not in the camera. But print is amazing with highlights. In this shot I am amazed at how much detail I could retain in the sky while exposing for the subject.
I was thinking this morning, I wonder if I need to calibrate or profile my scanner. I have my monitor already profiled a while ago and this did wonders I remember. But I am not sre about the scanner. I remember reading something about IT-8 and stuff. Not sure what to do, can anyone clear this up as well?
Thanks
Yes Jamie, I agree print film can quite rewarding, but it seems to take a lot more work after scanning compared to slide. Slide you just know whether you got it right or not in the camera. But print is amazing with highlights. In this shot I am amazed at how much detail I could retain in the sky while exposing for the subject.
I was thinking this morning, I wonder if I need to calibrate or profile my scanner. I have my monitor already profiled a while ago and this did wonders I remember. But I am not sre about the scanner. I remember reading something about IT-8 and stuff. Not sure what to do, can anyone clear this up as well?
Thanks
Bryce
Well-known
I don't think any software can make a pretty picture out of that...
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
Welcome to color photography.
There is no such thing as "getting it right". Right is totally subjective. Even in the wet darkroom, the printer is presented with infinite possibilities as to color temp and balance.
You're not going to get it "automatically" (or right) using any scanning software or even with PS.
You can only work until the colors are pleasing to your eye and/or they resemble the scene as you remember it.
In makes no difference if you use the scanner software or PS -- or both -- to achieve this. Point is that color balancing is ALWAYS necessary -- that was true in the wet darkroom and it remains true today in the digital age.
There is no such thing as "getting it right". Right is totally subjective. Even in the wet darkroom, the printer is presented with infinite possibilities as to color temp and balance.
You're not going to get it "automatically" (or right) using any scanning software or even with PS.
You can only work until the colors are pleasing to your eye and/or they resemble the scene as you remember it.
In makes no difference if you use the scanner software or PS -- or both -- to achieve this. Point is that color balancing is ALWAYS necessary -- that was true in the wet darkroom and it remains true today in the digital age.
40oz
...
What color depth are you scanning at? I found that scanning in 48 bit color can really help. It generates really large files, and can take longer throughout the whole process, but the color payoff is worth it. Due to the extra hassle, I scan in 24 bit the first time, and re-scan select frames in 48 bit. Colors are much better, more accurate and brighter, in 48 bit.
jaffa_777
Established
Hi 40oz. Yes I am scanning in 48 bit. I playing around with HDR as well with Silverfast AI
Does anyone here have a nikon 9000. Did you do any calibrations or profiles for it? Why and how did you do it? Does it make your scans better?
Does anyone here have a nikon 9000. Did you do any calibrations or profiles for it? Why and how did you do it? Does it make your scans better?
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Ronald M
Veteran
I tackle it by making a full tonal range all color test shot. Scan and make the settings, then save the settings.
Any future shots on the same film and same type sceen ( daylight) will have the same scanner settings, so I just reload the old ones.
I do not tweek the scan to a fine degreel, but just use Density and RGB. Import to ps and do auto levels. Works 90 % of the time.
You need to understand how to color balance. It is not a random process.
Any future shots on the same film and same type sceen ( daylight) will have the same scanner settings, so I just reload the old ones.
I do not tweek the scan to a fine degreel, but just use Density and RGB. Import to ps and do auto levels. Works 90 % of the time.
You need to understand how to color balance. It is not a random process.
DavidH
Overweight and over here
jaffa_777 said:
Yeah, you can get scan targets etc but I've never used them...as long as your monitor is calibrated.
Takes me a minute or so per scan to tweak settings, set focus and then let it run...and gives me scans that don't need a lot of Pshop other than for artistic reasons...have a read of the Silverfast manual for extra info.
It may take a little while to learn but within a few days you'll wonder at the ease of it and appreciate the flexibility. It's this flexibility (and a hint of Noise Ninja) which allows me to continue using film for our international broadcast clients - in conditions where digital would be a compromise of blown highlights or dense shadow, the neg film handles it all.
jaffa_777
Established
Hmm, from what I can work out from looking on the net, is that I can create an IT-8 target by scanning the ektachrome color test slide that came with the scanner. But how will this help create a profile for a negative film like portra. Wouldn't it only help if I was then scanning kodak slide films? (maybe I have just answered my own question here?)
Also, while were on the topic, (might as well thrash this out for all its worth), who use silverfast hdr? How do you use it and whats it for?
Also, while were on the topic, (might as well thrash this out for all its worth), who use silverfast hdr? How do you use it and whats it for?
Film dino
David Chong
TEZillman
Well-known
I've been having the same problem. I've been a slide shooter for most everything for years, but since getting slides developed seems to be less than convenient lately, I've been experimenting with negative film.
My wife gave me a copy of "Scanning Negatives and Slides" by Sascha Steinhoff for my birthday last week and in reading it I'm finding out that there is a lot of information about scanning that isn't available on the net or at least I haven't found it.
Probably the biggest revelation so far is that some of the sample software that comes with the book does a far better job than the software that came with my Minolta DS IV scanner. Vuescan has specific settings for individual film types for films from many manufacturers. I scanned a negative from a roll of Portra 400nc with both the Minolta software and Vuescan. Comparing the prints with each other and with the lab print, the Vuescan print seems to have the most accurate colors of the three. I haven't tried the Silverfast sample yet.
By the way, the author recommends calibrating your scanner, monitor and printer every two weeks. That surprised me as I thought you only needed to do it once. Anyway, I thought I'd point out a resource that might help with your problem. I will warn you that the author also discusses most everything from the viewpoint of using a Nikon scanner which doesn't always seem to apply to the scanner I have.
My wife gave me a copy of "Scanning Negatives and Slides" by Sascha Steinhoff for my birthday last week and in reading it I'm finding out that there is a lot of information about scanning that isn't available on the net or at least I haven't found it.
Probably the biggest revelation so far is that some of the sample software that comes with the book does a far better job than the software that came with my Minolta DS IV scanner. Vuescan has specific settings for individual film types for films from many manufacturers. I scanned a negative from a roll of Portra 400nc with both the Minolta software and Vuescan. Comparing the prints with each other and with the lab print, the Vuescan print seems to have the most accurate colors of the three. I haven't tried the Silverfast sample yet.
By the way, the author recommends calibrating your scanner, monitor and printer every two weeks. That surprised me as I thought you only needed to do it once. Anyway, I thought I'd point out a resource that might help with your problem. I will warn you that the author also discusses most everything from the viewpoint of using a Nikon scanner which doesn't always seem to apply to the scanner I have.
jaffa_777
Established
Excellent work Tom, thanks for that. I now there are people out there like us with the same problems. I am beginning to understand now what people mean behind the steep learning curve for scanning.
I have just worked out a method for for using Silverfast and then HDR. It seems to be like a raw converter before you send it off to photoshop. But you gotta get all your settings right before you do the scans. I have just completed one and it came out excellent into photoshop, except for newton rings. Dang! Gotta try again. I will post the follow up image soon.
I have just worked out a method for for using Silverfast and then HDR. It seems to be like a raw converter before you send it off to photoshop. But you gotta get all your settings right before you do the scans. I have just completed one and it came out excellent into photoshop, except for newton rings. Dang! Gotta try again. I will post the follow up image soon.
lynn
lynn
Film dino said:
Yes, it does work in grayscale - the composition is pure and the textures are sublime - but it is delicious in colour. Those blues are sweet; the bits of yellow are the icing on the cake.
jaffa_777
Established
Thanks lynn and david, yes it was quite cool in b&w, but it's not how I am seeing it. But love the input none the less.
It makes me wonder what it would like in slide like provia or e100g. I wonder if the sky would have definatley blown right out.
It makes me wonder what it would like in slide like provia or e100g. I wonder if the sky would have definatley blown right out.
DavidH
Overweight and over here
Andrew - stunning shots on your website - I'm very impressed...nice work. Hope you get into the swing of scanning soon so we can see some more...
lewis44
Well-known
Scanning in HDR format in Silverfast AI is like creating a raw file in digital. You scan and get a 48 bit uncorrected file. It then allows you to do the corrections in HDR and keep the original untouched and unmodified. I also find that if you do this and then use the Black, White And Grey eyedrops When working in HDR you can come real close, color correction wise.
The AI program rescans when you make a correction for a lot of the features and is real time consuming, but doing the HDR Uncorrected scan in AI and then Working the image in HDR is much faster and quite a bit easier.
Give that a try, I think you will like the workflow a lot better. You can also work with the file and "save as" as many times as you like and never change the HDR 48 bit file. You can then compare the files you have corrected and save the settings you like best. Also shoot a GretaMacbeth color correction chart with each type of film you use, scan in AI as a HDR 48 bit file, then in HDR save the corrected image(using the black, white and grey point eyedrops) and use it on the rest of the roll (S) of film.
Randy
The AI program rescans when you make a correction for a lot of the features and is real time consuming, but doing the HDR Uncorrected scan in AI and then Working the image in HDR is much faster and quite a bit easier.
Give that a try, I think you will like the workflow a lot better. You can also work with the file and "save as" as many times as you like and never change the HDR 48 bit file. You can then compare the files you have corrected and save the settings you like best. Also shoot a GretaMacbeth color correction chart with each type of film you use, scan in AI as a HDR 48 bit file, then in HDR save the corrected image(using the black, white and grey point eyedrops) and use it on the rest of the roll (S) of film.
Randy
jaffa_777
Established
lewis, thats a sensational idea, I will have to get one of those charts. Yes I have just found out about HDR and looks like the way to go. I am now getting more consistent colour, just keep getting damn newton rings.
DavidH, thanks for your comments. I can't wait to get out and start shooting my up coming documentary project on my Mamiya 6's. My film arrived today so I am excited. Your G2 shots are great. That camera has got to be the sharpest thing in 35mm I have ever seen, and not to metion the beatifull zeiss rendering of colour. The b&w shot of the big wheel is excellent too.
DavidH, thanks for your comments. I can't wait to get out and start shooting my up coming documentary project on my Mamiya 6's. My film arrived today so I am excited. Your G2 shots are great. That camera has got to be the sharpest thing in 35mm I have ever seen, and not to metion the beatifull zeiss rendering of colour. The b&w shot of the big wheel is excellent too.