LCT
ex-newbie
Why not a slim body with reversible display? Epson did it 7 years ago and it works fine.
kzphoto
Well-known
Swivel display with controls like the m6/m7 on the back side! you could throw ISO & EV comp onto the back, and retain the cameras form. For people wanting to use the LCD, they could just flip the screen over. Problem solved.
Add in a Hybrid VF ala the Fuji x100 and you have a capable shooter.
theno23
Established
I would really like an ISO dial and EV comp control, but I really value image review. I'm not much of a chimper, most of the time I don't do it, but when I want it, usually in tricky lighting or framing/parallax situations, it's invaluable.
I'd need EV comp much less if the M9's meter was any good! So maybe that's a solution to the wrong problem. I very rarely tweak the ISO dial on my M6ttl to get exposure compensation, even when shooting transparency, so some combination of a better meter, and more latitude would help.
I'd need EV comp much less if the M9's meter was any good! So maybe that's a solution to the wrong problem. I very rarely tweak the ISO dial on my M6ttl to get exposure compensation, even when shooting transparency, so some combination of a better meter, and more latitude would help.
The biggest flaw of LCD-less design is that you will find out your lens cap was on when you are in your digital darkroom...
That would happen to me a few times a year I'm sure...at least for a few frames. As a person who prefers a LCD, I also do not think it is important as many believe. If you need a screen to verify focus, then I'd say practice your focusing more... it's not that hard (unless you are using ultra-fast lenses).
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gavinlg
Veteran
For certain styles of photography, like for instance using external lighting, it's invaluable.
mto'brien
Well-known
I find it hilarious that some feel as though the person who invented the lcd is being "kicked in the nuts" here. What happened to having a little bit of fun? I believe the thread has the word fantasy in the title... jeez.
How many people use the M9 in a studio full time though...
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
ChrisC
Established
.....The biggest flaw of LCD-less design is that you will find out your lens cap was on when you are in your digital darkroom...
Or alternatively; the biggest flaw is that the greatest aid for fine-tuned pin-point exposure, [the histogram of course], is being thrown away, as is the means of checking the picture edge framing, and the opportunity to dump obviously duff images. A screenless digital 'M' was previously, and still is a daft idea for making the flawed 'M' worse rather than better, but there again I wish I had had histogram confirmation for when I was shooting 6x7 and 6x9 transparency [and often without opportunity for bracketing].
............ Chris
JuJu
Well-known
I like the idea and was very surprised to see something similar to what I have been thinking about lately.
My ideas was not to skip the display completely, but to replace it with a very thin electronic paper. Most settings and image control could be done through the viewfinder, if it has a possibility to overlay the image just like the X100 does. I would even consider live-view for those, that want it, via bluetooth on your smart phone or webpad.
The electronic paper display at the back would be good for convenience stuff, such like more complex settings, that you do very rarely, or for displaying DOF-tables for attached lenses, battery and images left and stuff like that. Since it needs no power for displaying (only for changing display contents), it does not cost much battery.
Of course it can be used to control images in BW, but that would not be it's main purpose. But I have a great slogan for that:
Our display doesn't have pixels, it has grain!
I think, 50% of RFFlers would buy one...
got your point, thanks.I wasn't certain about if WB adjustment makes any differences to raw files, thanks for the info, Sebben.
Half of my lenses are not coded, and I find lens selection on M9 to be very useful. Yeah, It's hard to keep this function without a LCD screen...
If the top screen is a little bit wider, yeah, I think so. Thanks, Chris.
no no no, it's totally cool, any thoughts or comments are welcome. The idea was simply to trade LCD for a slimmer body. Yep, it's a silly reason I knowsorry for the somewhat straightforward comment, but why not get a black paper and cover the lcd as a flap? it works just the same as an lcd like the r-d1's, and it makes the camera chimping-proof. the only setting you need to change that uses the lcd is iso, right? and that's not a setting one changes that often while shooting... it's silly, but i'd give it a go.
it's cool to wonder how things can be improved, but it's a niche inside a niche still...
btw, the "turn on hcb mode" joke made me smile
R-D1 type of flip screen looks cool, but it will make M9 even fatter. Yep, I totally agree it's a niche inside a niche. This whole LCD-less concept is just a "what if" project that I challenge myself with. For entertainment purpose only, you can say.
Glad to hear that (HCB mode), thanks, umcelinho.
Yep, I love physical ISO dials!
Thanks, Gavin. Points taken.
Holy cow, that's one handsome rig!
Yep, I see your points. Take it easy. I am merely working on a "not so serious" subject with a serious manner. As you can see, there are a lot of design dead ends, so it's safe to assume that you will not see an LCD-less digital camera to be produced, at least not in the near future. I do appreciate your honest inputs, 250swbA screenless digital camera so you can get back home and find you missed as many shots (focus off, bad composition, poor exposure) as when you used a film camera. That would make for a nostalgic experience, you could once again talk again about the one that got away, rather than the one you didn't try hard enough to get.
Sometimes I wonder if Leica's don't bring out the worst in people, where simply owning the camera is more important than the quality of the photographs, where polishing the camera and bragging about photographic purity is more important than getting out the door with it. And a screenless Leica fits right in that bracket. My time is valuable, I don't get enough of it to go out with my camera, so when somebody invented the LCD so less of my time was wasted I didn't see fit to kick them in the nuts, I more or less stopped using film.
Removing the LCD is just negative ambition, making a camera less productive for the sake of form. If you don't want to look at the LCD don't, put some black tape over it, it will cost less than a whole new camera, and you can re-create the warm glow you get when you discover you missed focus on your best shot after a weeks work, or a four hundred mile drive, or a significant occasion in your life
Steve
Thanks, but I afraid a reversible screen will make an M9 even thicker.
A reversible screen will make an M9 thicker, but I really like the idea of putting ISO and EXP COMP on the reverse side, I will try to sketch out the idea (and hybrid VF) in the next round of sketches. Thanks! kzphoto.
Nice to hear that, thanks, Tom.
Thanks for your feedbacks, theno23
Thanks, John, yeah, even with M9's screen, I still can't tell if I nail the focus or not
It's cool, thanks, Matt.
Thanks for confirming the design dead end, Chris.
@all: Thanks for all your thoughts and comments. The project looks hopeless at this point, but I am not giving it up yet.
cosmonaut
Well-known
Would the lack of an LCD make it cheaper?
JuJu
Well-known
I guess not, people pay more for odd-ball Leica's. Like meter-less MP (MP Classic) :-(
bensyverson
Well-known
"Yeah, I'm sure it will handle nicely, but it's fugly..."
Hey, lay off my Hexar AF!!
Hey, lay off my Hexar AF!!
Despite what some people here are saying, I think this camera would do well. I'm sure it could be the Leica digital that would make some film users want to flirt with digital.
Ex3
Newbie
I was wondering some time ago about screen less digital Leica and came up with this idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTFmUuORNN8
Detachable screen with bluetooth connection to the camera ( when u loose it u might use ur IPhone with some kind of Leica App ).
This whole panel might have buttons to operate or be touch panel instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTFmUuORNN8
Detachable screen with bluetooth connection to the camera ( when u loose it u might use ur IPhone with some kind of Leica App ).
This whole panel might have buttons to operate or be touch panel instead.
dave lackey
Veteran
+1
This is from an old thread but I still like this digital barnack! Only, it does have a screen and it does not have interchangeable lenses. But, it is cool, nonetheless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJDtmcWiaVM&feature=related
JuJu
Well-known
What? Hexar AF is nicely designed"Yeah, I'm sure it will handle nicely, but it's fugly..."
Hey, lay off my Hexar AF!!
Thanks, John
Yeah, EX3, Thanks for sharing your video. That is one way to achieve the screen-less design (by using the screen which is already in your bag, cell phone). But at this point, it's quite difficult to make this concept user friendly...
@Dave: That is one handsome... Sonack?
JuJu
Well-known
Okay, going through the comments I have received so far, here are 2 concepts I like.
The 1st concept's EVF is not Fuji X100 kind of EVF. It just gives you a quick flashback of the photos you just took, as a visual confirmation, and you can use the "Ex-M2-Rewind-Knob" to navigate the photos you took.
I think EVF is a great solution for a fully retro design like shutter cocking lever, back ISO dial and even a digital Leicavit with Hi-Cap battery(Dirk's idea) All the essential controls are physical, no menus, no jpgs, no profiles... etc. Just like a film M without the film scanning part.
The 2nd one is just like an R-D1, I am not crazy about it, but I think it will have better public acceptances.
The 1st concept's EVF is not Fuji X100 kind of EVF. It just gives you a quick flashback of the photos you just took, as a visual confirmation, and you can use the "Ex-M2-Rewind-Knob" to navigate the photos you took.
I think EVF is a great solution for a fully retro design like shutter cocking lever, back ISO dial and even a digital Leicavit with Hi-Cap battery(Dirk's idea) All the essential controls are physical, no menus, no jpgs, no profiles... etc. Just like a film M without the film scanning part.
The 2nd one is just like an R-D1, I am not crazy about it, but I think it will have better public acceptances.
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Pikapig
Loving Analog
Consider a 8-9k worth of camera that u are going to change it...ermm..its just too risky...plus a duct tape could do a good job as well..and if you wan something slimmer...there are alot more alternatives...
jarski
Veteran
digicamera without LCD, natural laws of camera world does not apply to Leicaland
seriously though. cool scetches, wonder how todo those ?
thicker bottom plate that has battery cells has been on my wish list too. guess swivel would be best way to handle LCD "issue"
seriously though. cool scetches, wonder how todo those ?
thicker bottom plate that has battery cells has been on my wish list too. guess swivel would be best way to handle LCD "issue"