pundit
Established
Hmm - a few of my photos from today's lunchtime foray displayed some banding.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
I've shot 2000 plus photos on mine so far and I have one example of banding when the sun was riseing and at the extreme left side of my lens- half in the frame, half out. iEye here I come.
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
(Thread Hijack) Hey Ted, I've seen you use "iEye" in a few comments recently--might I inquire as to what it might be? (/Thread Hijack)
sorry bout that...
sorry bout that...
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Erik,
After posting two different links to two different photogs both highly talented and both getting world-class results from their M8's I was met with the same response (by some). Namely "His photos are wonderful no matter the camera- he could produce iconic images on a cell phone" or words/ sentiment to that effect. I have also noticed that when an image taken by lesser photogs is not up to the same standards as those from the photographers in my posts it’s automatically the fault of the camera. This got me to thinking- what people really want is a camera that floats around and takes miraculous pictures "for them." Thus was born the idea that became the iEye- see below and I'm sure you'll get the idea : )
I have alluded to, and spelled out what many photographers really want in a camera- one that gets it right nearly every time. And if we’re all honest with our selves (sadly myself included) that’s what we’re all really looking for- eye popping shots 99.999% of the time. Well it seems my old buddy Steve Jobs is a lurker here on RFf and sent me an email after reading a few of my posts; much to my surprise. Now I had thought a camera like this would come from Canon but it seems Steve, an avid photog- (who knew?) Is working on a passion outside of iPods and Apples. In conjunction with Jim Norrod of Segway, and Raytheon Corp they are developing the ultimate photographic tool- the iEye.
The iEye will be based on the Segway platform that is to say it will be mounted to a modified Segway. The camera is being developed by Raytheon Corp and will features a seven lens bayonet mount much like the rotating barrels in an A10 tank buster or a more commonly understood rifle, the Gatling Gun. Five of the lenses (Raytheon developed these in conjunction with Schneider) will be primes with one wide zoom and one telephoto zoom to fill in the shots missed by the primes. The computer will of course be from Apple and will be fully compatible with both Windows and Macintosh operating systems.
The concept of the iEye is devilishly clever and I’m still somewhat in awe as this will certainly be a life changing event for me and many other photography lovers (you know who you are). The camera is programmable to emulate any photographer or photographic style you choose for example if you want to compose pictures like that of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Christopher Anderson, Erich Hartman (or Kartman from South Park), Alex Webb or Annie Leopwitz, and on, and on, and on just select the photog from a pull down menu located on the cameras computer or on your laptop via wireless the camera will then create images in the style of your choice until a new photographer or group of photographers are chosen. And with new photographers and photographic styles being added every day there’ll be lots of fun for the whole family.
And speaking of the family I really like what they’re doing for the kids. Somehow they’ve been able to program an algorithm that conveys what pictures would be like if taken by Barney, Big Bird and The Little Mermaid. As a test, Steve asked me to choose from several pictures which ones I thought were taken by Big Bird or The Little Mermaid and in every instance somehow I KNEW. And to keep the iEye fresh, It has a sophisticated “learning” algorithm to study works from photographers not on it’s list; so let’s say you wanted to emulate a photographer like captainvideo, all you need do is select his gallery on Flickr on your iEye’s wireless web browser and he’ll learn the compositional style and not only take images in the photographers style of your choice, but iEye will even handle the post processing and prints up to A4.
Now for the fun part. Let’s say you want to shoot some Ansel Adams like early morning shots at your neighborhood park. Not a morning person? Not to worry- in fact you don’t have to be any kind of person ever again! Just select Ansel Adams from the photographic style pull down menu, select the time of day you would like your masterpieces snapped, then go online through your iEyes online browser to Mapquest and designate your iEye’s geographic area of coverage and time table parameters. Now go to bed and sleep in. While you sleep your creative vision is hard at work scouring it’s internal database of satellite shots looking for the best photo ops for tomorrows big event. Then at the preselected time only your creative genus could muster, your little iEye (well not so little in fact it’s bigger then C3PO) is off whirring through the neighborhood on it’s way to express your creative soul and if you selected “shoot any target of opportunity” from it’s myriad of system preferences (and you did because your just that kind of artist) you’ll get a few surprises later with your morning coffee.
Now let’s say you live in a rough neighborhood or you plan on visiting one (this will be a photojournalist’s best friend). Have your iEye equipped with the ultimate theft and vandalism deterrence- a 1.5 million volt Tesla Coil! No matter from what angle the hoodlums come at your iEye they'll get a non lethal (just) bolt of **** there pants and crawl away after they’ve wet themselves jolt. And best of all, whenever the Tesla Coil is activated it takes photos of the whole event for the ultimate in hard-core street photography!
Not a city photog you say? iEye’s got you covered. Order iEye with the optional quadruped motion unit- perfect for climbing stairs or when ever the terrain is uneven. And of course for such photographic opportunities as these you can specify the outdoorsman lens package that will substitute the wide and normal primes for telephoto primes that no telephoto zoom can match.
See Europe (or Baghdad) and amaze your friends with images that only you can create. Take your iEye with you where ever you go- to the beach (never again be embarrassed to take all those bikini clad co-ed shots you know you’ve been dreaming of), the supermarket, or on your next Euro holiday. iEye will not disappoint with pictures of stunning clarity, compositional supplication, and a flare only you can program. One caveat thought. Like the Leica M8, the iEye has but one battery and it’s HEAVY. So heavy in fact that it’s not possible to remove it. So just as with the M8 you’ll have to get your projects done on one charge, or take a break for several hours at the hotel (at least with the iEye you’ll never need to leave your hotel) for a recharge.
Now obviously all this technology and functionality doesn’t come cheap so I’m selling my Leica kit (Hell the Leica and all other cameras will soon be obsolete) for the non-refundable down payment. Later this week I have a meeting with my banker for the loan so I can get on the waiting list early but I’ll most likely need to sell my sailboat to pay the camera off (well most of it) to avoid interest charges on the 30-year loan.
So in summation we will finally have the camera everyone has been secretly longing for. Now if the camera takes a truly great shot there will be no debate- it was the iEye that gets all the credit and of course when an image is not to our liking it’s the iEye’s fault. Yes with the iEye only you can determine it’s creative genius.
Sorry for the hi-jack. Erik if you want to discuss this further PM me or start a new thread.
Ted
After posting two different links to two different photogs both highly talented and both getting world-class results from their M8's I was met with the same response (by some). Namely "His photos are wonderful no matter the camera- he could produce iconic images on a cell phone" or words/ sentiment to that effect. I have also noticed that when an image taken by lesser photogs is not up to the same standards as those from the photographers in my posts it’s automatically the fault of the camera. This got me to thinking- what people really want is a camera that floats around and takes miraculous pictures "for them." Thus was born the idea that became the iEye- see below and I'm sure you'll get the idea : )
I have alluded to, and spelled out what many photographers really want in a camera- one that gets it right nearly every time. And if we’re all honest with our selves (sadly myself included) that’s what we’re all really looking for- eye popping shots 99.999% of the time. Well it seems my old buddy Steve Jobs is a lurker here on RFf and sent me an email after reading a few of my posts; much to my surprise. Now I had thought a camera like this would come from Canon but it seems Steve, an avid photog- (who knew?) Is working on a passion outside of iPods and Apples. In conjunction with Jim Norrod of Segway, and Raytheon Corp they are developing the ultimate photographic tool- the iEye.
The iEye will be based on the Segway platform that is to say it will be mounted to a modified Segway. The camera is being developed by Raytheon Corp and will features a seven lens bayonet mount much like the rotating barrels in an A10 tank buster or a more commonly understood rifle, the Gatling Gun. Five of the lenses (Raytheon developed these in conjunction with Schneider) will be primes with one wide zoom and one telephoto zoom to fill in the shots missed by the primes. The computer will of course be from Apple and will be fully compatible with both Windows and Macintosh operating systems.
The concept of the iEye is devilishly clever and I’m still somewhat in awe as this will certainly be a life changing event for me and many other photography lovers (you know who you are). The camera is programmable to emulate any photographer or photographic style you choose for example if you want to compose pictures like that of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Christopher Anderson, Erich Hartman (or Kartman from South Park), Alex Webb or Annie Leopwitz, and on, and on, and on just select the photog from a pull down menu located on the cameras computer or on your laptop via wireless the camera will then create images in the style of your choice until a new photographer or group of photographers are chosen. And with new photographers and photographic styles being added every day there’ll be lots of fun for the whole family.
And speaking of the family I really like what they’re doing for the kids. Somehow they’ve been able to program an algorithm that conveys what pictures would be like if taken by Barney, Big Bird and The Little Mermaid. As a test, Steve asked me to choose from several pictures which ones I thought were taken by Big Bird or The Little Mermaid and in every instance somehow I KNEW. And to keep the iEye fresh, It has a sophisticated “learning” algorithm to study works from photographers not on it’s list; so let’s say you wanted to emulate a photographer like captainvideo, all you need do is select his gallery on Flickr on your iEye’s wireless web browser and he’ll learn the compositional style and not only take images in the photographers style of your choice, but iEye will even handle the post processing and prints up to A4.
Now for the fun part. Let’s say you want to shoot some Ansel Adams like early morning shots at your neighborhood park. Not a morning person? Not to worry- in fact you don’t have to be any kind of person ever again! Just select Ansel Adams from the photographic style pull down menu, select the time of day you would like your masterpieces snapped, then go online through your iEyes online browser to Mapquest and designate your iEye’s geographic area of coverage and time table parameters. Now go to bed and sleep in. While you sleep your creative vision is hard at work scouring it’s internal database of satellite shots looking for the best photo ops for tomorrows big event. Then at the preselected time only your creative genus could muster, your little iEye (well not so little in fact it’s bigger then C3PO) is off whirring through the neighborhood on it’s way to express your creative soul and if you selected “shoot any target of opportunity” from it’s myriad of system preferences (and you did because your just that kind of artist) you’ll get a few surprises later with your morning coffee.
Now let’s say you live in a rough neighborhood or you plan on visiting one (this will be a photojournalist’s best friend). Have your iEye equipped with the ultimate theft and vandalism deterrence- a 1.5 million volt Tesla Coil! No matter from what angle the hoodlums come at your iEye they'll get a non lethal (just) bolt of **** there pants and crawl away after they’ve wet themselves jolt. And best of all, whenever the Tesla Coil is activated it takes photos of the whole event for the ultimate in hard-core street photography!
Not a city photog you say? iEye’s got you covered. Order iEye with the optional quadruped motion unit- perfect for climbing stairs or when ever the terrain is uneven. And of course for such photographic opportunities as these you can specify the outdoorsman lens package that will substitute the wide and normal primes for telephoto primes that no telephoto zoom can match.
See Europe (or Baghdad) and amaze your friends with images that only you can create. Take your iEye with you where ever you go- to the beach (never again be embarrassed to take all those bikini clad co-ed shots you know you’ve been dreaming of), the supermarket, or on your next Euro holiday. iEye will not disappoint with pictures of stunning clarity, compositional supplication, and a flare only you can program. One caveat thought. Like the Leica M8, the iEye has but one battery and it’s HEAVY. So heavy in fact that it’s not possible to remove it. So just as with the M8 you’ll have to get your projects done on one charge, or take a break for several hours at the hotel (at least with the iEye you’ll never need to leave your hotel) for a recharge.
Now obviously all this technology and functionality doesn’t come cheap so I’m selling my Leica kit (Hell the Leica and all other cameras will soon be obsolete) for the non-refundable down payment. Later this week I have a meeting with my banker for the loan so I can get on the waiting list early but I’ll most likely need to sell my sailboat to pay the camera off (well most of it) to avoid interest charges on the 30-year loan.
So in summation we will finally have the camera everyone has been secretly longing for. Now if the camera takes a truly great shot there will be no debate- it was the iEye that gets all the credit and of course when an image is not to our liking it’s the iEye’s fault. Yes with the iEye only you can determine it’s creative genius.
Sorry for the hi-jack. Erik if you want to discuss this further PM me or start a new thread.
Ted
Last edited:
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Yeah, that was a detour... 
Mine exhibits banding, sometimes at ISO 640 if shooting RAW, and always at ISO 1250 and 2500 if shooting RAW. If I shoot JPEG, the banding disappears; I attribute this to the noise-reduction processing in-camera.
Mine is going back for repairs, but not before I take it with me to Paris
That's why I learned how to hand-hold at low shutter speeds for.
Mine exhibits banding, sometimes at ISO 640 if shooting RAW, and always at ISO 1250 and 2500 if shooting RAW. If I shoot JPEG, the banding disappears; I attribute this to the noise-reduction processing in-camera.
Mine is going back for repairs, but not before I take it with me to Paris
That's why I learned how to hand-hold at low shutter speeds for.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Gabriel,
Your sending your M8 back for repairs? Why may I ask? First or second generation- hijack in motion.
Your sending your M8 back for repairs? Why may I ask? First or second generation- hijack in motion.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I've been told this is the post-fix generation. It came with firmware 1.09
They got to fix that banding thing; it's annoying, but I have a workaround, so I can live with it for a while. But it must be fixed. The other is, I read that they can adjust the "pressure" of the shutter release. I want it smooth, not "gritty".
I'm not howling around like those that collectively make legends, you know that I'm just adding my experience here.
They got to fix that banding thing; it's annoying, but I have a workaround, so I can live with it for a while. But it must be fixed. The other is, I read that they can adjust the "pressure" of the shutter release. I want it smooth, not "gritty".
I'm not howling around like those that collectively make legends, you know that
I'm just adding my experience here.
harmsr
M5 Nut
Gabriel,
All of the post fix M8s exhibit the vertical banding to the right of center to some extent as you state. It can actually be at all ISOs, but is most noticeable as you state. It is also eliminated at slow shutter speeds by the noise reduction processing prior to writing the RAW file.
Leica has stated it is a firmware error causing this and will be fixed in the 1.10 release that will be coming very shortly.
Relative to the gritty release, it seems to smooth out a lot after use.
Best,
Ray
All of the post fix M8s exhibit the vertical banding to the right of center to some extent as you state. It can actually be at all ISOs, but is most noticeable as you state. It is also eliminated at slow shutter speeds by the noise reduction processing prior to writing the RAW file.
Leica has stated it is a firmware error causing this and will be fixed in the 1.10 release that will be coming very shortly.
Relative to the gritty release, it seems to smooth out a lot after use.
Best,
Ray
harmsr
M5 Nut
I forgot to mention it is most noticeable with underexposure, from slight to very underexposed.
In low light, I have found that over exposing by about 1/3 really eliminates the band and also drastically improves the noise. I can then drop the exposure back by 1/3 in C1 without image quality issues.
Just my $.02 and experience with the M8 at ISO 640 & 1250. I really have never done any real work at 2500.
Best,
Ray
In low light, I have found that over exposing by about 1/3 really eliminates the band and also drastically improves the noise. I can then drop the exposure back by 1/3 in C1 without image quality issues.
Just my $.02 and experience with the M8 at ISO 640 & 1250. I really have never done any real work at 2500.
Best,
Ray
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
(With awe): ooooohh.
Thanks for the info, Ray. You've described where I see the band precisely. I first saw this when recovering info from shadows, and there it was.
I did notice that the slower you got (the shutter speed, that is), the less likely it was to see this. I am not nuts!
Now, about smoothing the button out: well, I can certainly try next month
Thanks again, that is very helpful info.
Thanks for the info, Ray. You've described where I see the band precisely. I first saw this when recovering info from shadows, and there it was.
I did notice that the slower you got (the shutter speed, that is), the less likely it was to see this. I am not nuts!
Now, about smoothing the button out: well, I can certainly try next month
Thanks again, that is very helpful info.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Good to know Gabriel and everyone knows you're no Troll- the mad dogs that howl at the moon typically have never even seen this camera let alone used one. Their arguments read like a pull to talk doll.
I hope you get this sorted- knock on wood but mine's working fine and no banding even in the city lights of Las Vegas after dark at ISO 1250. I don't go faster then that so I can't comment.
I hope you get this sorted- knock on wood but mine's working fine and no banding even in the city lights of Las Vegas after dark at ISO 1250. I don't go faster then that so I can't comment.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Alrighty, then
Well, I've decided to use ISO 2500 only during *extreme* cases. I've been able to get some usable images.
I don't shoot RAW when shooting anything higher than ISO 800 with my Canon gear, anyway, I let the camera take care of the noise-reduction, and it's much better -- I trade off some detail to time spent cleaning it off later on; believe me, it's a very good trade-off. I think the limit for shooting RAW with the M8 is going to be 640. Certainly shoot JPEG with 1250 and 2500, with an eye to do B&W if I have to go down the 1250 or 2500 route. This is what a lot of people using the RD-1 do with 800 and above, I've noticed.
Well, I've decided to use ISO 2500 only during *extreme* cases. I've been able to get some usable images.
I don't shoot RAW when shooting anything higher than ISO 800 with my Canon gear, anyway, I let the camera take care of the noise-reduction, and it's much better -- I trade off some detail to time spent cleaning it off later on; believe me, it's a very good trade-off. I think the limit for shooting RAW with the M8 is going to be 640. Certainly shoot JPEG with 1250 and 2500, with an eye to do B&W if I have to go down the 1250 or 2500 route. This is what a lot of people using the RD-1 do with 800 and above, I've noticed.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
For the demo purposes, here's the first picture I noticed it in:
This is at ISO 640, RAW.
This is at ISO 640, RAW.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
And here's another one:
ISO 2500, JPEG Fine (converted to B&W later) - No banding.
ISO 2500, JPEG Fine (converted to B&W later) - No banding.
John Camp
Well-known
Is there a band in the portrait? I don't see it.
JC
JC
Sailor Ted
Well-known
I don't see it either- nice image though. (that may be why I am so happy with my M8)
P:
P:
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Thanks, Ted. Well, this doesn't show up at all in anything lower than ISO 640.
John -- If the monitor is "properly" calibrated and you don't have the contrast all the way down, that band on the first photo should show up on your screen.
It may not show on older monitors. But trust me, it's there. Just to the right of the glasses on his neck. All across the frame from top to bottom.
John -- If the monitor is "properly" calibrated and you don't have the contrast all the way down, that band on the first photo should show up on your screen.
It may not show on older monitors. But trust me, it's there. Just to the right of the glasses on his neck. All across the frame from top to bottom.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Gabriel M.A. said:Yeah, that was a detour...
Mine exhibits banding, sometimes at ISO 640 if shooting RAW, and always at ISO 1250 and 2500 if shooting RAW. If I shoot JPEG, the banding disappears; I attribute this to the noise-reduction processing in-camera.
Mine is going back for repairs, but not before I take it with me to Paris
That's why I learned how to hand-hold at low shutter speeds for.
Gabriel, I was informed by Leitz in New Jersey that there will be a firmware upgrade available sometime in February that will address many issues - banding included I believe as well as the need to run the battery down a couple of times before it is able to accept a full charge.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
kbg32 said:
Is this why on a full charge I show one bar below a full charge? (This is not Canon fodder for those who spend time here but do not have this camera.)
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Gabriel M.A. said:
Gabriel-I don't see it - and I have a half-year old, fully calibrated monitor.... Maybe you could PS it a bit to show us what you mean?
Btw this one was taken with my first-gen body before it went to Solms.It should have come out like a zebra, but it didn't...
