Self-publishing your photo book

x-ray said:
A long time friend and I published a book last year. I work with a very high quality printer that Ive worked with for many years. We do small runs which cost more but it's the way we like to do it. We run 150 books at a time. We make ten dollars a book on the wholesale price and $20 on retail sales. In ten months last year we sold about 3000 books. We also sell through amazon and they print their version and pay us royalties. We've made very good money and sales are still strong.

Our book is about the legendary moonshiner Popcorn Sutton. My friend and I spent three years documenting his life and moonshine operation. He wound up getting busted by the lay and sentenced to prison but killed himself a couple of days before shipping out to jail. His fame and the moonshiner show on TV has helped with sales.

Our book "The Making and Marketing of a Hillbilly Hero" contains about 70 very fine B&W images a good bit of excellent text. My friend who worked on it with me is a professional writer of fifty years. My wife designed the book and is a retired creative director and graphic designer.

We sell through small book stores, amazon, museums and at lectures and book signings. We plan to expand as time allows. Tower books was selling it as well as Barnes and Noble on line. The weren't interested in carrying it in the store.

We've considered another book but feel without a name like Popcorn it would have little appeal. There are thousands of beautiful books on the market that do not sell ecause there's nothing unique about them.
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Thanks for sharing your encouraging experience.
I remember your book form a few years back but can't find it right now.
would you care sharing the name of your publisher/printer?
 
russelljtdyer said:
Basically, you're trying to create a product and then look for a market to buy your product.
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Russell

Your analysis of what is needed to publish is excellent. I do try to crate a good product.
The one thing about which I humbly disagree is the one above.
No, I will first look for a market, and then, after the project is financed mainly by presales, I'll actually create the product.
 
I've been moving into book publishing recently and plan to do more as my book published last year..is selling pretty well.
It is not a photo book..although there is a lot of photography in there..
This is all an adjunct to my regular business and my wife is a web designer and author as well..so she helps out w/ book design etc..
What I can tell you is this..
If you want to make money..figure out a way to keep quality high...and lower costs..
This means..learn to do all the work yourself..
Become a businessman..and meet your bottom line..$-wise..
Stop fantasizing about all the books you are going to sell and fame etc..and come into reality..
Figure out your actual market..who is actually going to spend their hard earned greenbacks for your book..
If you don’t know this already..you will fail..
But that said..
Its an exciting time to self publish..
But you need to know what you are doing..
Keep in mind..
That your book is probably going to fail..99% of books do..
But do it for yourself only..and maybe you will find an audience..in the long run..
But dont do as most..and publish 1000 ..and have them sitting in your closet for 20 years..that’s several hunderd lbs of books..and takes up a lot of space..
Do short runs only..or none at all..and just do e-book instead..your photos will look better..your costs will be practically nothing..and you may actually sell some..
Be very, very smart..about all of this..
Or you are going to lose a lot of cash..
 
sanmich said:
No, I will first look for a market, and then, after the project is financed mainly by presales, I'll actually create the product.
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Selling even a tenth of your intended print run through pre-sales will be quite a tall order. Just remember that there are loads of other photographers trying to fund their project through kickstarter and similar sites so unless you have a very commited fanbase you'll be competing with all of them.

Why not make it a very small print run, like e.g. 100? If it sells out and you know that more people want to buy it you can still make a second edition.

For the design I would try to find a young graphic designer who's enthusiastic about making books and will do it for free. Designers like to see their work in print just as much as photographers do so basically you'll both get something out of it.

As for good printers, it seems that "Optimal Media" in Germany does the printing for quite a lot of excellent books.
 
Jamie123 said:
Why not make it a very small print run, like e.g. 100? If it sells out and you know that more people want to buy it you can still make a second edition.
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It stroke me as an excellent idea.
but, only as an example, as by one quote I got, the printing+shipping costs are the following: 300=10.7k$; 500=11.8k$; 1000=13.3k$
The difference is close to negligible.

Let's see if I get something different from other printers...
 
sanmich said:
It stroke me as an excellent idea.
but, only as an example, as by one quote I got, the printing+shipping costs are the following: 300=10.7k$; 500=11.8k$; 1000=13.3k$
The difference is close to negligible.

Let's see if I get something different from other printers...
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Fair enough, although I would argue that, even if it's 'only' a 25% difference in price, the difference between the 300 and the 1000 print run is still $2500. That's quite a bit of money.

Another question you have to ask yourself is whether or not self-publishing is really your only option. You could also just make a few book dummies and send them to publishers to see if they want to publish it. Or you can enter it to one of the various "book dummy" competitions like the one at the Kassel Photobook festival.

It's actually a misconception that only well-known names can get their book published. Established publishers like Mack or even Steidl publish books by unknown photographers all the time. It's not impossible, it's just reeeeeeeeally hard. If you have a great project you might find someone who wants to publish it and if you can't find anyone you can still go the self-publishing route.

All that being said, like others I think your $20k budget seems a bit high and you could probably get it done for cheaper. I just did a google search and apparently Cristina De Middel's Afronauts (which got her shortlisted for the Deutsche Börse Prize) cost her around €8k and that was also an edition of 1000. And that's actually quite an elaborate book.
 
Another thing I would do is check out other self-published titles, see which ones you like best qualitywise and then look by whom it was printed. Judging by the information on your website I assume you live in Paris. I see there's going to be an event in a couple of weeks at Le Bal where there will surely be lots of self-made books: http://en.le-bal.com/fr/category/mh/le-bal-books/

If I were you I'd go there. I'm sure they not only will have lots of book dummies on display but there will surely also be lots of people with experience in self-publishing.
 
Suggestion..
Figure out the retail price..the wholesale price..and the distributor price..before you spend a dime on your project..
To see if this is even a possibility to make a profit here..
At the prices you are quoting for printing..
I highly doubt anyone will pay the retail price for your book..too expensive..
Remember..
10 years down the road..and less than 50 sold..and 10+K wasted..you will regret not taking the time to figure out the bottom line..
Maybe this will help..
http://www.millcitypress.net/setting-retail-price
 
Emile de Leon said:
To see if this is even a possibility to make a profit here..
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I think that's an easy one to answer. There isn't. As far as I know even well known established photographers don't make a dime on photobooks (I'm talking artists' monographs, not coffee table books). I think the only chance of turning a profit on a self-published photobook is if it becomes a hit and you keep a few of them for yourself so you can sell them later at collector's prices when it's sold out. But of course you don't know in advance if it will become a hit :)
 
^^^ There are many ways to price a book - but limited production artist books are a special case -- IMO.

I recently bought this book http://printedmatter.org/news/news.cfm?article_id=546, for $200 and considered it a good deal. It sold out quickly at $150.

i would not consider printing and selling any privately produced artist book for less than $100. There is simply no point.
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I love the idea of artists' book, I just never had the chance (or money) to buy one. I would love one of Raymond Meeks' artist books but can't drop $1k+ on a single book :)
 
Unless you are rich..
I would wonder why anyone would want to publish a book for 10K w/o the possibility of actually making a profit..
Sure artist limited editions can command money..
But..
Such a ultra limited market..
Why bother..esp at such a monetary loss
Unless just doing it for yourself…
Or for your ego..
 
Emile de Leon said:
Unless you are rich..
I would wonder why anyone would want to publish a book for 10K w/o the possibility of actually making a profit..
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Why do artists make art? Surely not only in order to make a profit, right?
Also, making a profit means spending 10k and earning more than 10k. That's probably a tall order. But recouping some if not most of the money spent is surely a possibility.

That being said, a while back I watched a video of a photobook symposium on Vimeo (can't find the link anymore) where several book publishers and book sellers talked and apparently even some of the better known publishers ask the photographers to contribute to the cost of producing the book either through print sales, grants or crowdfunding. So even if you're so lucky to have your book published by someone else you still have to spend some money. Them's the breaks.
 
It is already presumed that an artist makes art..
That is a given..
But..
Artists have to eat…pay the mortgage..and send the kids thru college…you know the drill..
That takes money..
If you want a career in art..you have to turn bux..and not waste money..
If you have a 9 to 5 straight gig...and do art on the side..
Then you can have an art hobby..that is a cash loser..
If you can afford it..
 
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Emile de Leon said:
It is already presumed that an artist makes art..
That is a given..
But..
Artists have to eat…pay the mortgage..and send the kids thru college…you know the drill..
That takes money..
If you want a career in art..you have to turn bux..and not waste money..
If you have a 9 to 5 straight gig...and do art on the side..
Then you can have an art hobby..that is a cash loser..
If you can afford it..
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All true but not everything an artist does can be profitable. Photobooks are usually labors of love, even for very well known photographers. Besides, it's not like you can make a book every three months so even if they were somewhat profitable it wouldn't be sustainable. I guess the monetary value for a photographer in making a photobook is that it helps promote the work which in turn helps print sales. But I doubt that is the primary reason for most when they think of making a book.

The simple fact is that high quality photobooks are expensive to make, the market is relatively small and there's a limit of what people will pay to buy a book. Maybe that will (or has already started to) change now that digital printing is getting quite good but I still doubt that art photobooks will ever be a cash cow.
 
Just two weeks ago I took a week long workshop run by a very famous photographer. This is a photographer who has several beautiful books that he has (for the most part) self published. One day over lunch I asked him what advice he might have for one of us aspiring photogs who might want to do a book. His one word response to me was, "Don't..."
 
dasuess said:
r who has several beautiful books that he has (for the most part) self published. One day over lunch I asked him what advice he might have for one of us aspiring photogs who might want to do a book. His one word response to me was, "Don't..."
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Did he elaborate after that?

His response could have meant:

Don't, because it not financially viable, or
Don't, because it's still too early for aspiring photographers like you, or
Don't, because it is too much hassle and too difficult ...
 
starless said:
Did he elaborate after that?

His response could have meant:

Don't, because it not financially viable, or
Don't, because it's still too early for aspiring photographers like you, or
Don't, because it is too much hassle and too difficult ...
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Not financially viable... His books are done mostly to drive his gallery print sales, but also in support of his personal cause of nature conservation around the shores of Lake Superior.
 
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