wgerrard
Veteran
Jeremy, it seems you like the M6 itself, but are not satisfied with the pictures coming out of it. On the other hand, you do like the K1000's pictures. Maybe focusing on why that's the case might be provide some insights.
Sell the M6 and get a Zeiss Ikon, or not?
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
^ +1
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
jsrockit
Moderator
Perhaps you just really don't feel comfortable with rangefinders? If you like the SLR better, just use that... it's no big deal.
Turtle
Veteran
With the M6 fixed it should be good for ages. FWIW I have owned seven Leica Ms, from new to used, and the ONLY problem I had was from a used MP with a misaligned RF patch. My M6s (both used) have never missed a beat, nor has my M3 or MPs or....
I very much doubt the ZI will be more reliable compared to a M6 back from Sherry. I actually suspect the M6 will be more reliable (subjective personal guess). Leica RF patches dont seem to drift and all the other issues should be prevented by the CLA (like sticking frame selector etc).
If you like Zeiss lenses, sell your V4 cron for $1300-1400 and buy a used 50 planar, plus used biogon and pocket the change for film. If you don't like them, you can sell them for what you bought them for and perhaps try an asph cron once you have saved up a few hundred more.
I thought long and hard about cashing in on my MPs to release money by getting ZIs. I decided against because the Leicas have been good to me and also because the metering is so darned good. If you want some tips on metering with the Ms, feel free to post a thread or PM me. I find the cameras utterly predictable on metering and going back to EOS matrix metering gives me problems! I shoot mono only, so same as you.
I very much doubt the ZI will be more reliable compared to a M6 back from Sherry. I actually suspect the M6 will be more reliable (subjective personal guess). Leica RF patches dont seem to drift and all the other issues should be prevented by the CLA (like sticking frame selector etc).
If you like Zeiss lenses, sell your V4 cron for $1300-1400 and buy a used 50 planar, plus used biogon and pocket the change for film. If you don't like them, you can sell them for what you bought them for and perhaps try an asph cron once you have saved up a few hundred more.
I thought long and hard about cashing in on my MPs to release money by getting ZIs. I decided against because the Leicas have been good to me and also because the metering is so darned good. If you want some tips on metering with the Ms, feel free to post a thread or PM me. I find the cameras utterly predictable on metering and going back to EOS matrix metering gives me problems! I shoot mono only, so same as you.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
You should keep your great M6.
About what you feel: as most things in life, I guess your feelings on this have no reason, but several reasons acting together months ago... You've had repairs and changes, you can't see the frame alone as in SLRs, and you're learning RFs with an unusual to you focal length...
I recommend you to keep the M6, and also keep that small nice 35, and use them differently as soon as possible... For example, you could plan some new style shooting designed just for the pleasure of composing inside the frame, and also for very fast street shooting: prefocus your 35 at 8 feet, load ISO 400 film, set your camera at say 1/250 f/11 (yellow filter) and shoot for some days just under direct sun... Shoot scenes and subjects receiving sun: not too vertical sunlight, but the rest of it... This will make you enjoy your great camera and lens in a new and comfortable way: no need to focus, and no need to set aperture or speed... Just compose for fun when you want to, or just point and shoot when you want to...
I came to RFs less than two years ago, after 25 years with SLRs. Not seeing through the lens made me feel strange and very slow for almost a year, but now I feel great with RFs: they make me stay more in contact with the scene, more alert... I guess it's precisely because with SLR's we imagine we're in contact with reality just because we see through the lens, but now I'd say RF photographers are more in contact with reality because they really need to be like that all the time to be ready to shoot without seeing the real scene through the lens...
Prefocusing is not just fun: it makes us better photographers because we're faster and dedicate our minds to things away from technical skills... Go into the sun with ISO 400 for a few days an you'll see it...
Cheers,
Juan
About what you feel: as most things in life, I guess your feelings on this have no reason, but several reasons acting together months ago... You've had repairs and changes, you can't see the frame alone as in SLRs, and you're learning RFs with an unusual to you focal length...
I recommend you to keep the M6, and also keep that small nice 35, and use them differently as soon as possible... For example, you could plan some new style shooting designed just for the pleasure of composing inside the frame, and also for very fast street shooting: prefocus your 35 at 8 feet, load ISO 400 film, set your camera at say 1/250 f/11 (yellow filter) and shoot for some days just under direct sun... Shoot scenes and subjects receiving sun: not too vertical sunlight, but the rest of it... This will make you enjoy your great camera and lens in a new and comfortable way: no need to focus, and no need to set aperture or speed... Just compose for fun when you want to, or just point and shoot when you want to...
I came to RFs less than two years ago, after 25 years with SLRs. Not seeing through the lens made me feel strange and very slow for almost a year, but now I feel great with RFs: they make me stay more in contact with the scene, more alert... I guess it's precisely because with SLR's we imagine we're in contact with reality just because we see through the lens, but now I'd say RF photographers are more in contact with reality because they really need to be like that all the time to be ready to shoot without seeing the real scene through the lens...
Prefocusing is not just fun: it makes us better photographers because we're faster and dedicate our minds to things away from technical skills... Go into the sun with ISO 400 for a few days an you'll see it...
Cheers,
Juan
aizan
Veteran
you'll get used to the meter, so i would just replace the 35mm summicron pre-asph with a 35mm summarit-m. it's a little slower, but has the look you're after, and still has a crescent shaped focusing tab.
Roberto V.
Le surrèalisme, c'est moi
Kinda off-topic, but how much did the MP viewfinder upgrade cost? I'm thinking about buying an M6 but I'd hate to have the common problems with the original finder.
As for changing cameras, I'd say you should keep the M6 for half a year to see if you get used to it or not. I don't think the ZI would make such a big difference.
As for changing cameras, I'd say you should keep the M6 for half a year to see if you get used to it or not. I don't think the ZI would make such a big difference.
fotomeow
name under my name
I think you'd be crazy to let your M6 go in favor of Ikon, but maybe you are crazy ....
the MP finder upgrade is about $150 if I remember correctly from DAG. Sherry K charges a little more, and Youxin Ye a little less.
the MP finder upgrade is about $150 if I remember correctly from DAG. Sherry K charges a little more, and Youxin Ye a little less.
jljohn
Well-known
I think the finder upgrade was $185.
I appreciate the comments. I had reached the point in my mind where I wanted to throw in the towel on the M6 and try something different, but I had concerns that after sinking as much into it as I have, I might regret it. And I was concerned that I might be letting the more reliable camera go. So, I'm thinking at the moment that I might try to get a 50mm, and if that helps me settle into the M6, then I will likely let the 35mm go. In any case, I will let all this percolate a little before I make any purchases or sales.
Thanks!
I appreciate the comments. I had reached the point in my mind where I wanted to throw in the towel on the M6 and try something different, but I had concerns that after sinking as much into it as I have, I might regret it. And I was concerned that I might be letting the more reliable camera go. So, I'm thinking at the moment that I might try to get a 50mm, and if that helps me settle into the M6, then I will likely let the 35mm go. In any case, I will let all this percolate a little before I make any purchases or sales.
Thanks!
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
If this is the early M6 Classic then the meter repair was probably necessary as many of them needed to be repaired. The CLA maybe or maybe not needed and the MP viewfinder upgrade is not a repair. You have the 35mm Summicron IV a highly sought after lens which is rising in price and rarity. Many are using that lens with the M9. The M6 with that lens is magnificient combination but as great as it is purported to be it is not easy to handle and takes a long time to become used to it. Going from a K1000 w/50mm lens to an M6 with a 35mm is an enormous jump. IMHO stick with that combination; learn to appreciate greatness as well as its shortcomings.
ampguy
Veteran
Jeremy, do you by chance wear glasses? If so, you might be try a diopter on the M instead of glasses, or if that doesn't work, perhaps a ZI/M3/Bessa or SLR or even LCD based view camera might work better for you based on your eyesight.
Steve_F
Well-known
Having used Nikon SLR's for 14 years (FM3A, F90X, F5 & D3) and can understand your 'issue' with the large spot-meter. I only use a spot-meter (handheld) for my un-metered RZ67. I presume you've seen in the manual how the meter 'reads'. I just tell myself its a Centre meter unlike the Centre-'weighted' one of my FM3A.
What I found most difficult to try and overcome (I don't subscribe to what is going outside the lines) is that I see in my mind the shot I want and in SLR's everything you need is there. Blacked out outside of your chosen focal length, depth of field effects (& dof preview too - What you see is what you get, the whole lot is put together in your minds eye and the camera is the tool to record it).
I had to send my M6 TTL in twice (rf out of vertical alignment then framelines stuck - had the finder upgraded whilst the top was off).
My wife who is only interested vaguely in my photography turned round and said quite matter of factly "You never had problems like this with your Nikon's" - ie two problems in 8 months instead of one in 14 years (F5 frame counter 'lost a digit in the finder).
However having said all that I don't think I could part with my M6 TTL now - it's a challenge to get it right (metering is great - no bad slide film exposures).
I first picked up a Leica approx 2 years ago and the way it felt in my hands - I knew one day I'd buy one. At that same time I picked up a ZI & Bessa and they didn't have the same solid feel (no offence but the Leica felt sturdy).
I hope this maybe of interest, my opinion is stick it out and try seeing things a little differently. I've had too, at times it's been a little annoying but I love the fact I'm learning something new..
Steve.
What I found most difficult to try and overcome (I don't subscribe to what is going outside the lines) is that I see in my mind the shot I want and in SLR's everything you need is there. Blacked out outside of your chosen focal length, depth of field effects (& dof preview too - What you see is what you get, the whole lot is put together in your minds eye and the camera is the tool to record it).
I had to send my M6 TTL in twice (rf out of vertical alignment then framelines stuck - had the finder upgraded whilst the top was off).
My wife who is only interested vaguely in my photography turned round and said quite matter of factly "You never had problems like this with your Nikon's" - ie two problems in 8 months instead of one in 14 years (F5 frame counter 'lost a digit in the finder).
However having said all that I don't think I could part with my M6 TTL now - it's a challenge to get it right (metering is great - no bad slide film exposures).
I first picked up a Leica approx 2 years ago and the way it felt in my hands - I knew one day I'd buy one. At that same time I picked up a ZI & Bessa and they didn't have the same solid feel (no offence but the Leica felt sturdy).
I hope this maybe of interest, my opinion is stick it out and try seeing things a little differently. I've had too, at times it's been a little annoying but I love the fact I'm learning something new..
Steve.
kxl
Social Documentary
As someone has stated, the 2 big avantages of a ZI over an M6 are the AE and bigger viewfinder. Since you had stated that the AE is not a big deal for you, that leaves one ZI advantage to explore.
So my my question is: do you live anywhere near a ZI dealer? If so, have a look through the ZI's viewfinder.
I have 2 ZI's (the AE and big VF ARE important to me), so I have a biased opinion, but unless you think the ZI's viewfinder will improve your photography, you're probably better off staying with the M6.
So my my question is: do you live anywhere near a ZI dealer? If so, have a look through the ZI's viewfinder.
I have 2 ZI's (the AE and big VF ARE important to me), so I have a biased opinion, but unless you think the ZI's viewfinder will improve your photography, you're probably better off staying with the M6.
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