Roger Hicks
Veteran
Hold on: this is a bit of a non-argument. You say that the Leica is unaffordable, but if you could afford it, you'd buy an even more expensive camera? This is a prize example of a counter-factual conditional. In fact, it's two counter-factual conditionals, stacked one on top of the other.
Also, an awful lot depends on what you want it for. If I could have, for nothing, an S2 + lens or another M9, the sole condition being that I couldn't sell either, I think I'd go for the M9 for what I do. If I still did much high-end studio photography, I'd go for the S2.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Hopefully I wasn't misunderstood...my post was purely my own opinion.
Do I think the M9 is great? Yeah, I like M-series rangefinders. Do I need one? No. Will it be as durable in the real world that I want--or need--to photograph? No. Is it as flexible as an SLR system? No. Would I miss scanning? No.
However, if you want one, get one. I'm all for being passionate about photography. If a new M9 motivates you to get out and shoot more, maybe it really is worth it. I'm unconvinced it'll magically make better pictures, though, but what the heck.
Sounds like you made up your mind. Congratulations! Just don't take it to the beach, on a boat, to the Antarctic, in a jungle, a desert, or near a hurricane (VERY tongue-in-cheek), and enjoy
David.
Dear David,
So far: beach, yes, boat, yes, desert... well, depends on how you define desert, but hot, sandy and scrubby, yes. Jungle, no, but on the basis of the few jungles I have visited (India and Mexico), I'd not hesitate. I've never been to the Antarctic or tried to take pictures in a hurricane. I don't think I'd worry too much about the former as long as I could keep the camera under my parka, and I'd not be too happy with any camera in a hurricane (or in a sandstorm in the Sahara, which I have experienced).
In other words, all your objections are either non-existent (beach, boat, desert, jungle) or, for any photography I have ever done or am likely ever to do, pure Indiana Jones fantasy. Without wishing to be rude, I'd suspect they're fantasy for you too. How many pictures have you personally taken in the Antarctic or in hurricanes?
Cheers,
R.
raid
Dad Photographer
For what I may want to use a digital camera, the cost of an M8 would be too high to justify such a purchase. I may go for something less costly, but a camera that still allows me to enjoy using the classic lenses that I own. I may soon get a SONY NEX-3. I would use it for family portraits and during trips.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I think as far as my levels of 'extreme' photography go, deserts, the Antarctic and hurricanes probably aren't part of it. Boats definitely, and maybe some humid conditions.
Of course you didn't mention the 'hood of Baltimore!
Of course you didn't mention the 'hood of Baltimore!
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Plus, if I were to spend $9400 on a camera, at least it better be a good looking camera. That Pentax is really ugly!
Vince Lupo
Whatever
M9 update: My NEW black M9 will be here next week! I decided to go with a new one rather than the demo, and the final price was even better than I was originally quoted (and was not much more than the demo price), so I opted for that. Hopefully this entire endeavor will live up to my expectations!
As well, I've pretty well settled on the film cameras I'm keeping -- one Leica III, my grey vulcanite Leica IIIf RD/ST with the Leicavit, 2 Hasselblads, a couple of Exaktas, my Contaflex TLR kit, my KW Reflex Box, and I think that's about it. Yet to go are my Contax II kit, My Kiev III kit, my Robot Royal 36 kit, my Hasselblad ELM, and a few miscellaneous cameras and lenses. So not completely turning my back on film, and I think this is a good compromise.
Many thanks for everyone's input on this thread -- definitely enlightening, and truly helped me in the decision-making process.
As well, I've pretty well settled on the film cameras I'm keeping -- one Leica III, my grey vulcanite Leica IIIf RD/ST with the Leicavit, 2 Hasselblads, a couple of Exaktas, my Contaflex TLR kit, my KW Reflex Box, and I think that's about it. Yet to go are my Contax II kit, My Kiev III kit, my Robot Royal 36 kit, my Hasselblad ELM, and a few miscellaneous cameras and lenses. So not completely turning my back on film, and I think this is a good compromise.
Many thanks for everyone's input on this thread -- definitely enlightening, and truly helped me in the decision-making process.
Lax Jought
Well-known
I. Am. Jealous.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
And just in case you're feeling nervous about having spent all that money:
My M9 was on loan for a long time. The time eventually came when Leica sent me an ultimatum: give it it back, or pay up. I paid up. It was a lot of money, even with a press discount. But I don't regret the purchase for an instant. That's after 15 months.
Cheers,
R.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
What really gets me weirded out is when people talk about the M10, the M11 etc -- you know, continually waiting for the next big thing. I've been waiting for two years for the Nikon D800, but so far hasn't been released. And I really don't see any indication that the M10 is coming out anytime soon (though I guess I really could wait for the Leica M11 Sultan of Brunei Edition).
The only thing you will miss waiting for whatever may come out tomorrow are the photos you could have taken today.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Vince,
(Taking Rover's arguments further.)
Nah, nah... Wait for the M9 Magnum Fall of Dictators or Free Tibet editions.
No: hold on; those could happen quite quickly, even before the M10. Let's go for the Year of the Wood Hare Edition. We're just looking at the Iron Hare year so that's 24 years away. Of course you have no plans to take pictures in the next 24 years so it's always worth waiting, right?
Cheers,
R.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
Vince, I'm sure you'll be happy. It will allow you to take pictuers again, which is what it's all about! The best thing about my M9 is that I can just take pictuers and I like to carry it, unlike the dslr. I also like to use it, unlike the point and shoot. Finally, I don't worry about taking pictures that will lead to me needing to spend time developing and scanning, I just take pictures.
I've also kept some film cameras - a pair of Zeiss Ikons, Mamiya 7 and Rolleicord. But they're used when I am hapy to scan, so they are always appreciated. I've actually kept my Canon AE-1 as well, but that's because my late grandfather bought it for me new in 1979 or 80
Best of all worlds I think. I feel, and am sure you will too, very blessed to have such freedom and luxury
Mike
I've also kept some film cameras - a pair of Zeiss Ikons, Mamiya 7 and Rolleicord. But they're used when I am hapy to scan, so they are always appreciated. I've actually kept my Canon AE-1 as well, but that's because my late grandfather bought it for me new in 1979 or 80
Best of all worlds I think. I feel, and am sure you will too, very blessed to have such freedom and luxury
Mike
MCTuomey
Veteran
Very well said.
HLing
Well-known
Ehm, develop your own film? It's very easy, it's A LOT cheaper then having a lab do it. And you have full control. If that is your issue that it's a hassle to get film developed by a lab, do it yourself. If you are trying to find an excuse to buy a Leica M9 then go ahead
Glad someone said it: "Developing your own..." And print your own. It's addicting. It completes the full cycle of capturing an image.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I've been 'developing my own' since I was 15 (1981), but pretty well stopped doing it about 8 years ago once I got married. Honestly I have no interest any more, as I spend enough time in front of the computer working on photos, and now I want to spend my evenings in the darkroom? Don't think my family would like that very much, and I really want to do other non-photography things. I could probably stand developing my film, but I really can't see myself going back in the darkroom, though I was actually a pretty good printer. I'd also love to get back into my platinum-palladiums, but I think my motivation is somewhat lacking in that department. Who knows, that could change.....
Vince Lupo
Whatever
My M9 is coming today -- yippee!!!
Okay, I've calmed down a bit -- sorry for that bit of irrational exuberance....
So I was just reading Steve Huff's M9 'diary', and in one of his early posts he mentioned that he sent his M9 and all his lenses to Leica to be 'calibrated'. Have any M9 owners here had any focusing issues that required sending all your lenses to Leica to have them 'mated' to the M9 for maximum performance??? Doesn't have me worried or anything, but I'm wondering if a measure like that is necessary?
My main lenses that will be used with this camera are most likely my 21/4 Voigtlander, 28/1.9 Voigtlander, 35/1.7 Voigtlander, my 50/2 Summicron and 90/2.8 Elmarit (and of those, it will more than likely be the 21, 35 and 50 most of the time). Vintage screwmount lenses include 35/3.5 Summaron, 50/2 Summar, 50/2 'yellow' Summicron, 50/1.5 Xenon (oh be still my foolish heart!), 73/1.9 Hektor, 90/4 Fat Elmar and 105/6.3 Mountain Elmar, but I guess I'll just have to experiment to see how each works with the camera.
Okay, I've calmed down a bit -- sorry for that bit of irrational exuberance....
So I was just reading Steve Huff's M9 'diary', and in one of his early posts he mentioned that he sent his M9 and all his lenses to Leica to be 'calibrated'. Have any M9 owners here had any focusing issues that required sending all your lenses to Leica to have them 'mated' to the M9 for maximum performance??? Doesn't have me worried or anything, but I'm wondering if a measure like that is necessary?
My main lenses that will be used with this camera are most likely my 21/4 Voigtlander, 28/1.9 Voigtlander, 35/1.7 Voigtlander, my 50/2 Summicron and 90/2.8 Elmarit (and of those, it will more than likely be the 21, 35 and 50 most of the time). Vintage screwmount lenses include 35/3.5 Summaron, 50/2 Summar, 50/2 'yellow' Summicron, 50/1.5 Xenon (oh be still my foolish heart!), 73/1.9 Hektor, 90/4 Fat Elmar and 105/6.3 Mountain Elmar, but I guess I'll just have to experiment to see how each works with the camera.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
River Dog
Always looking
I develop my own films, 35mm, 120 monochrome and colour. It's pretty straightfoward and rather fun - but maybe only a couple of rolls a week.
It's the hybrid workflow. No darkroom, a changing bag and 30 mins in the kitchen, dry then scan with the Epson V500 for web presentation but haven't tried inkjet printing yet. I still have the original negs filed for posterity and any drum scans I may want in the future. Scanning is not a quick exercise though and a whole evening can go by repairing, adjusting and cropping etc.
Costs are very manageable. I use a NEX-3 with my M lenses to give me a digital option which I will probably use 50-50 or more - depends.
If I had the money, I would also be tempted by the M9 but I can buy a lot of chemicals and wonderful old film cameras with the loose change.
It's the hybrid workflow. No darkroom, a changing bag and 30 mins in the kitchen, dry then scan with the Epson V500 for web presentation but haven't tried inkjet printing yet. I still have the original negs filed for posterity and any drum scans I may want in the future. Scanning is not a quick exercise though and a whole evening can go by repairing, adjusting and cropping etc.
Costs are very manageable. I use a NEX-3 with my M lenses to give me a digital option which I will probably use 50-50 or more - depends.
If I had the money, I would also be tempted by the M9 but I can buy a lot of chemicals and wonderful old film cameras with the loose change.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
Vince all my (ZM) lenses focus spot on with my M9. They also focus spot on with my Ikons (the 35 and 50 were adjusted by Zeiss after a drop, so that suggests the specs are accurate for all bodies). Try them and see.
For everyone who is telling Vince to develop his own, the reasons he gives are the reasons I use my M9 more than anything else. The time required to develop and scan film is likely to be too valuable if you have a family and a job during the day! I've kept some film kit, but time is precious and you can't earn more of it...
Vince, a last thought - you might try going back to platinum-palladium printing using digital negs from your M9. I'm planning on a few of those in the next couple of years.
Mike
For everyone who is telling Vince to develop his own, the reasons he gives are the reasons I use my M9 more than anything else. The time required to develop and scan film is likely to be too valuable if you have a family and a job during the day! I've kept some film kit, but time is precious and you can't earn more of it...
Vince, a last thought - you might try going back to platinum-palladium printing using digital negs from your M9. I'm planning on a few of those in the next couple of years.
Mike
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I've actually found that 6x9cm film makes for great little platinums, so if I did in fact get back into printing those, then film processing my own for that purpose would make definite sense. Only thing I'd need to do is to update some of my platinum-palladium chemicals to restart things. I have the UV light setup, contact printing frames, the glass chemical spreaders, etc etc. Nice thing about platinum-palladium printing is that you can buy the paper required at almost any Office Depot!